To wonder why nobody is talking about the excess death rates

[Sotiredofallthisnonsense]

That's all really. It's not just the UK - so NHS and strikes etc won't account for similar or significantly worse death rates in other areas of the developed West.

There is very very little media attention on this. Am I being unreasonable to wonder why?

You do know its possible to have had the vaccine yet disagree with the lockdowns right? I had the vaccines but didnt agree with the lockdowns particularly Lockdown 2 (November 2020) onwards.

The book referenced above isn't particularly relevant to any argument here. Green analyses Western democracies' generalised reactions to COVID and compares them to places like Brazil with Bolsonaro. It's a critique of reactions rather than a criticism of one in particular though it does veer slightly towards thinking that protecting the economy is more important than protecting people from dying. It's not a binary opinion piece by any stretch, despite people trying to insinuate that's what it is. It's not left wing in bias particularly (as above, a lot of it centres around lockdown/economy rather than lockdown/stopping the spread of COVID)

@FannyChmelar Your posts were horrible, vile and nasty, that is true, and why they've been deleted. But I haven't told anyone to fuck off, I don't think? If i did, then I'll stand by that as well, I guess! But I think you've mixed me up with other posters. I think maybe you're confused and have conflated people who disagree with you into one imaginary person?

Even so, I don't think wishing death on me is appropriate or proportionate even if I had done what you accuse me of. Extremely bizarre and unpleasant behaviour that has done nothing to change my opinion.

I'd agree with that.

Pro-vax
Pro first lockdown
Against subsequent ones

I’m the same as you both

Pro vaccine, anti some of the restrictions

Thought the damage was ignored and things like excess deaths used to heighten risk

We have many problems on the other side, but one thing we did do right generally (not just us) is focus on the vaccine. We are so lucky it was possible, I remember some saying it was unlikely at one point.

Excess death rates in Turkey and Syria due to the earthquake that killed so many?

What excess death rate are you referring to? Stats please @Sotiredofallthisnonsense and what do you think they died of or have you stats to show what they died of?

Or are you one of 'those' conspiracy nuts that watched that unsubstantiated show on 'died suddenly'..... if you have seen it don't believe everything you see - they made lots of it up...shock horror, many of those ones showed falling to the floor never died at all. People do die you know and sometimes suddenly.

Oh dear it is one of those ....oooooooooooo did you know that x died 2 months after taking the vaccine so it must be due to the vaccine type conspiracy theorists.

There are some very cruel posts on some of these anti vax sites where they take a sudden death and assume it's due to 'the' vaccine and then post it. Later the autopsy gives the actual cause or probable cause of death and hey ho the damage is done. Poor families having the death of a loved one hijacked by nutjobs with an agenda.

There's a surprise. Lots of random claims but never substantiated data and the @Sotiredofallthisnonsense didn't come back to show her stats to back up her claims and what she is worried about.

@FannyChmelar ah you’re one of those Tick Tock people! Makes you all very easy to spot 😄.

My friend has told me she hasn't taken the vaccine because she thinks it will turn her into a lizard

Your friend really said this, yes? It wasn't because of the blood clots or the increase in myocarditis, stroke, heart attacks etc? It's because she thinks she will be turned into a lizard?
It's almost as if you're making it up to paint people who had doubts about the vaccine as nut jobs. But I'm sure you would never do that.

I follow the science like most sane people.

People keep saying about how bad the NHS is.
How about the lack of care services due to underfunding for care homes by local and national government
How about the crap uncaring families who wouldn't look after granny for a few weeks so she could leave hospital.
Hospitals cannot admit patients to full wards where there are patients who are medically fit to go home but still not quite ready to fend for themselves at home.
And yes I have been there DM came home and we took turns to stay with her with support from the transition team.

How about the crap uncaring families who wouldn't look after granny for a few weeks so she could leave hospital

They have brought forward the pension age of 68 so it happens earlier than originally planned. You cant expect everyone to be at work for longer yet also expect them to be available for family care for a few WEEKS (and you did say weeks so dont try and backtrack) so that a hospital bed can be freed up

And a lot of families moved away for work

MN Crap uncaring families not looking after Granny
Also MN you dont have an automatic right to live where you grew up if you cant afford it so move.

Oh and when you say crap uncaring families we know you mean crap uncaring women. We see you!

Exactly. My grandmother recently died at 93. All her children are in their 60s but still working. All her grandchildren are working and juggling childcare. We -just- managed to care for her in the final weeks thanks to a carefully coordinated rota/a big family/the fact some of it fell over Christmas/some understanding employers. But the reality is that this is one of the knock on effects of delaying pension age.

Exactly. My grandmother recently died at 93. All her children are in their 60s but still working. All her grandchildren are working and juggling childcare. We -just- managed to care for her in the final weeks thanks to a carefully coordinated rota/a big family/the fact some of it fell over Christmas/some understanding employers. But the reality is that this is one of the knock on effects of delaying pension age.

The Department of Health AND Social Care consumed £233,412,448,000 in 2021-22. That's over £7,000 per second. More than £3,500 for each man, woman and child and yet many struggle to access any resources at all.

It may take three or four electoral cycles to sort out the mess and the waste that prevents us from having the services that we all deserve - would we lend our votes to someone who offers to fix it over that timescale?

£3,500 per capita on healthcare plus social care is peanuts for 2021-2022.

Per the ONS in 2019, healthcare per capita spending was in France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736). This is ONLY healthcare, it doesn’t include social care.

It’s not waste, but underfunding that is the issue.

Where was the conspiracy theory in the OP?

Must be written in invisible text.

I think we are ignoring that the boomer generation are a large cohort of people, who havent had particulatly health lifestyles. Maybe that affects the numbers.

^^ This

"Excess mortality is a term used in epidemiology and public health that refers to the number of deaths from all causes during a crisis above and beyond what we would have expected to see under ‘normal’ conditions."

ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

@BigMandysBookClub the OP is alluding to the fact that we’re all dropping dead from supposed vaccine side effects. It’s been doing the rounds on the Facebook conspiracy theory sites for months.

The use of the “Tick Tock” is a dead give away. It’s the conspiracy signal that we’re all sleep walking towards the GREAT RESET!

Its entertaining to read if you’re ever awake in the middle of the night 😄.

If you look at the link posted somewhere above that shows the numbers of excess deaths by age group you will see that this is affecting every age group significantly, including children. even after excluding “covid” deaths.

What does that mean, to “follow the science”? This seems to be a phrase invented during the pandemic to dismiss anyone who raised concerns, including scientists with concerns. You follow pharma science rather than medical science. Pharma science is that which promotes their product. Medical science is the one that studies actual people in the real world (rather than badly controlled and endlessly manipulated pharma studies on cherry picked “healthy” people. The science that studies people in the real world is showing huge signals of health damage.

Which scientists have raised concerns? Concerns about what?

Which studies have cherry - picked healthy people? Obviously that would be wrong, and presumably at the peer-reviewed and publication stage such studies were thrown out as not reliable.

which link specifically? When I looked into this before, I could not find excess death rates for under 30s, only > 30s.