To wonder why nobody is talking about the excess death rates

[Sotiredofallthisnonsense]

That's all really. It's not just the UK - so NHS and strikes etc won't account for similar or significantly worse death rates in other areas of the developed West.

There is very very little media attention on this. Am I being unreasonable to wonder why?

Again, please point me to the “cruelty”? Handily enough my posts have been deleted so people can just believe what you’re asserting. There was no cruelty.

Regarding two sides, some people 👀 are still treating the unvaccinated like lepers.

My personal view is that excess deaths are up from a combo of a crap NHS, people not being diagnosed or treated during lockdowns, cardiac issues as a result of prior C19 infection and a sprinkling of vaccine injuries in those who had susceptible immune systems or who were injected without aspiration (aspiration is a requirement in Denmark).

Exactly this ^
There is no point in discussing the thing that cannot be named because apparently if you dare question anything you are an uneducated simpleton.
All I will say is it is very very concerning…

They’d already put SARS material in the prior years flu vaccine since 2009 when we had swine flu- both swine flu and Covid are types of SARS viruses. So much that was needed had already been tested and used in vaccines for a decade.

It would have been 11x higher based on studies of the death rates from covid of the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated.

Indeed. The 2009 flu vaccine with the H1N1 component had its own issues. I remember having to sign a waiver that year for the shot unlike previous years.
This was an interesting consequence: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7002008/

Yes- unfortunately they never know how pre-existing conditions can affect vaccine response in individuals until a vaccine has passed a few million people. These are rare adverse reactions that cannot be discovered through normal testing regimes for approval. I’m sorry if you have PMR and also had the adverse reaction related in the case study- it sounds truly awful. That really sucks and I agree with the authors that “one size fits all” vaccines is something we should move away from as medicine advances.

My main concern is the long term side effects on humans from the vaccine. This, we cannot possibly know until further down the line. The vaccinated are in effect the guinea pigs (not meant in a derogatory way) we all had a choice and we should respect each individuals decision.
There are many vaccine injuries at present and they are openly discussed in parliament so it is extremely concerning.

Before you make patronising comments, why don't you... repeat after me... Google it.

@FannyChmelar it was pointed out to you by more than one poster before deletion. I obviously won't repeat a deleted, hurtful post. You know full well why people were disgusted, and pretending you don't isn't convincing. You naturally don't think there was anything wrong with the posts, but if you're still unsure why they have been deleted, I'm sure MN can explain.

Dividing people into binary camps like your posts are trying to do is dehumanising and is not a nice or productive way to go through life. I have many friends, family and colleagues who think differently to me about many subjects, including vaccines, and we all manage to exist together and get along fine, even when we explore those differences in conversation. It's what most people do, surely?

You might like to look at ONS data for 2022/2023 as noted and quoted in my previous post.

This is interesting because my mum is a doctor (not in the UK) and I keep asking if she's seeing higher than normal numbers of the issues people cite as vaccine injury. It's obviously a hot topic of conversation in the medical community. And her answer is that, anecdotally, at this point, the answer is no. She and her colleagues know which of their patients are vaccinated and she says that none of these issues are more prevalent among patients who are than among those who have covid and are unvaccinated, and in fact, at the moment, the numbers are skewing in the opposite direction.

Thank you. I developed PMR one month after the flu shot. No prior history. My cousin in his 50s also developed it after the 2009 vaccine.

We felt there was a connection but there was no scientific/medical study to refer to until this 2020 paper.

My GP had an immunologist call me to talk through my hesitancy and they advised against the Pfizer because it contains Squalene (the adjuvant which caused the problem with the 2009 flu shot). Moderna also contains it. AstraZeneca didn’t so was mulling that one over when the reports came out about issues with that and it was advised for my age group not to have that.

It’s been really shit from late 2020 to early 2022 weighing up whether to get a C19 vaccine. I had finally booked one last Feb when this article (www.politico.eu/article/ema-investigates-reports-of-menstrual-problems-linked-to-vaccines/amp/) popped up and it made me stop and question things again. I ultimately ended up not getting vaccinated and on balance I think I made the right decision for me. It’s a personal choice and I am disappointed but accept that countries like the USA still deny entry to the unvaccinated.

Is it worth considering that the post war baby boom means that there are a higher number of people who are 70 plus

...or you might like to use the official excess deaths data (last six months shown) from a source noted and quoted in my previous post.

Crikey

Yes would love @mnhq to go into detail. Your reaction was way over the top.

Very rich to talk about binary camps when unvaccinated people are STILL treated like lepers by whole countries.

Obviously individuals can still decide to modify their own behaviour if they want to but the majority don’t need to

Tell that to my HA and PHS Compliance.

electric check
"it is advisable to wear a face covering. Where residents are not willing to do this we reserve the right not to enter the property and this will be treated as failure to provide access"
Letter is dated February 2023

That's good. But the data is raw data, the ONS data is standardised for population growth and age, using ASMR, which is rather more accurate.

It just goes to show how careful you have to be with statistics.

@FannyChmelar I disagree with your assessment of my reaction, of course. As did MN and other posters.

Not sure why you are bringing global policy into this when I am talking about individual interpersonal communication. I am not responsible for the policies of this country, let alone the rest of the world. Neither are you. But we are each responsible for the way we treat people, and have to accept there are consequences to how we conduct ourselves on- and offline, in terms of how people react to us and to what we say to and about them.

Wow, I’m so sorry about that. I wish that you were not caught between such a rock and a hard place. The only glimmer of hope I can give you is that you would actually qualify for one of the exceptions to travel to the US unvaccinated-
www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/proof-of-vaccination.html#noncitizen

“Categories of noncitizen nonimmigrants that meet the criteria for an exception under the Proclamation and CDC’s Amended Order include:”

“Persons with documented medical contraindications to receiving a COVID-19 vaccine”

“If you travel by air to the United States under one of these exceptions, you will be required to attest that you are excepted from the requirement to present Proof of Being Fully Vaccinated Against COVID-19 based on one of the exceptions listed above. Based on the category of the exception, you may further be required to attest that:

You will be tested with a COVID-19 viral test 3–5 days after arrival in the United States, unless you have documentation of having recovered from COVID-19 in the past 90 days; and

You will self-isolate if the result of the post-arrival test is positive or if you develop COVID-19 symptoms.”

My experience is the anti vaxxers all tend to be the same. Daily fail readers, flat earthers, lizard subscribers and all on the far right. It's disgusting that people spread the myth the vaccines are dangerous. I was very ill with covid (despite being normally healthy) and have been left with long covid. I have had every covid vaccine available to me although at 26 obviously can't get a booster which I would like. I suspect without the vaccine given how badly covid affected me, I wouldn't be here now. For people rubbishing the vaccine, please remember why we have taken it.

1. to protect the NHS
2. To reduce transmission in the community
3. Dangers of long covid

My friend has told me she hasn't taken the vaccine because she thinks it will turn her into a lizard. You can't reason with the stupid I'm afraid. Covid has left me with irregular hartbeats and I struggle now with basic activities despite being a long distance runner pre 2020 so take your misinformation with the vaccine and shove it where the sun doesn't shine anti vaxxers 😡

@KnittedCardi

That's good. But the data is raw data, the ONS data is standardised for population growth and age, using ASMR, which is rather more accurate.

It just goes to show how careful you have to be with statistics.

The raw data is what is causing a number of posters to comment (funeral directors, OTs etc). It is rather disingenuous to say that processed data is more valid. If my friend dies unexpectedly (for me and her) being told that it came as little surprise to a statistician is of little comfort.

www.kcl.ac.uk/news/new-book-critiquing-covid-response-launched

The Covid Consensus. The Global Assault on Democracy and the Poor
A Critique from the LEFT!!!!!

Protect the NHS has become one of the most dangerous things to come out of the pandemic. It is now talked about by many like a church rather than a service.