TW - AIBU to be worried about inappropriate play?

[Lookingforanswers1234]

Looking for perspectives and advice here. I have 2 DC, one a toddler and one a baby.

My FIL has looked after DC1 for one day a week since about 12 months old, so almost 2 years now. This was at FIL’s suggestion.

Over the past year I’ve gradually cut that back to just an afternoon, for various reasons, and have found the arrangement trying. FIL is not happy about reduced time.

Lately I’ve had this feeling in the pit of my stomach that something may not be right, that I can’t shift, but I have nothing ‘solid’ to go on.

A few examples of things that are odd include:

• DC cried hysterically when FIL picked them up from preschool recently, said “he made me sad, I wanted to see you Mummy”. FIL seemed very angry about it. I’ve never seen my child that upset. DC also didn’t want FIL to look at them or come anywhere near them. DC is potty trained but wet themselves constantly all of that afternoon.
• FIL once bit their finger, a couple of months ago, when they were ‘playing’. I was napping upstairs with baby and DC came upstairs and said (name) bit my finger. There was a mark on DC’s finger and FIL said oh yes, we were Playing and it was an accident.
• They ‘play’ in a physical way, tickling, playing ‘doggies’ and rough-housing.
• DC has lately had ‘big’ reactions with FIL, saying ‘No’ and shouting repeatedly when they are playing.
• the other week I walked around the corner and the baby had crawled onto his crotch when he was sitting down. The baby being there wasn’t the problem, because babies do climb on people, it was the fact that he had his hands back and let the baby climb over his crotch and then start to pull up to stand, and he only moved the baby away very quickly when I came into the room. He had a funny look on his face. It just didn’t sit well with me.
• the latest afternoon he was over, DC came upstairs when I was having a nap with baby and made it clear they did not want to be around FIL anymore. FIL seemed annoyed when I said I would take DC out for a walk by myself while he kept an ear out for the baby who was napping. I heard him parrot what DC said in a mocking voice, when he thought I couldn’t hear.

I have had repeated conversations with FIL about certain boundaries e.g. screen time. He has repeatedly outright ignored these things and a couple of times challenged me, saying that he believes that children should be free to make their own choices and shouldn’t be coerced into things e.g. wearing shoes to go outside in freezing cold weather. DC is not even 3. I have limited contact partially because I can’t trust him to stick to things that my DH and I have agreed. DH agrees on the boundaries that we have set and has had a word to FIL about keeping to these. Aside from that, DH feels I can be too critical of his DD.

FIL is a bit eccentric. By his own admission he does not pick up on social cues and believes himself to be on the spectrum.

I mentioned the hysterical crying and afternoon of soiling/wetting to a family member, who immediately said that it would be a red flag for her and it’s been on my mind since then. What I can’t work out is whether I’m being too paranoid/anxious and overprotective, or whether these things are genuine red flags that anyone should rightly be concerned about. Some of these examples could just be that DC has had enough and wants time with their mum!

The thought of being right makes me feel sick, as does the thought of being wrong. These things may all be nothing on their own, but it’s starting to add up and I’ve had this on my mind overnight. I need some perspective.

So AIBU?

OP I'd be having a serious discussion with your husband. He, is the one being harsh and selfish. He, is putting his selfish wants before the needs of his own children. His children don't want to be around their grandfather! There is a REASON for that, listen to them. The fact your husband doesn't give a shit about the feelings of his own children would have me having a serious discussion with him that he has no right to be angry, as he is the parent letting his children down, being selfish and lacking parental instinct and care. Your husband sound like a pos and I would be more worried at this point as to the type of neglectful, selfish man lacking parental care that I had married. You need to sit him down and tell him in no uncertain terms that he is WAY out of line and you so disappointed in the man you married and he had better have a 180 change in attitude and soon. I'd even give him an ultimatum, I really would.

The only unreasonable thing is that you have let this continue.

Stop it now. Don't worry about upsetting him - just stop the visits now and don't let him have unsupervised access of any sort.

Frankly I'd get in touch with social services and ask their advice. Your DD may be too upset to tell you anything (he may even be trheatening her), but they have ways of gently teasing information out of small children in a play situation, and without accidentally suggesting anything to them. Perhaps have your DD medically examined, too if appropriate.

It may be nothing - she may be just going through a clingy phase, but it may be more sinister. And even if he isn't abusing her he is distressing her.

Just keep this man away from your children.

Always trust your gut. I only read your first bullet point about your child crying and not wanting to be with FIL and couldn’t read further. Please please keep your child away from this man.

Also start having conversations with three yr old (‘privates are private’ ‘stay in pants’ etc etc). There’s some great resources from NSPCC. Three isn’t too early for age appropriate ways of protecting. Be very clear that ‘no secrets from mummy’ etc etc etc. Equip your child with the resources to communicate what’s going on in case anything is.

I d also start talking about these type things in front of fil. Predators prey on feelings of social politeness. They ll choose kids who are vulnerable and they ll avoid kids that say things like ‘privates are private’ and whose parents talk about safeguarding etc. of course stop the contact, but do this to ensure fil knows you are on to him. Just in case he gets opportunity

Excellent advice from @BeardyButton

Yeah I'd stop contact. The wetting themselves is a red flag to me eso if he is usually dry. The fact they are really upset when they see him, even if it's nothing illegal going on, they're not happy in his company and that alone would be enough for me.

TBH, having read all your posts now, I would have no contact with this man. He’s using “eccentricity” to conceal or allow for behaviour that most adults would find inappropriate. But if everyone around him has always said, “Oh yeah, Brian (insert name) has always been eccentric” this allows his behaviour to escape closer scrutiny.

Actually I would say stopping supervised access is simply not good enough, @Lookingforanswers1234 . They don't want to spend time with him, AT ALL. I think ceasing ALL contact with FIL at least for awhile, would be the best way to go. They don't want to spend ANY time with him, whether supervised or unsupervised. You would be unreasonable to force your children to see him at all.

Exactly right. Being 'eccentric' is the perfect cover. In Plain Sight.

No, he's not eccentric. He is a manipulative abuser pretending he's eccentric.

Yes, @IAmWomanHearMeRoar1

I’d never see him again. I would put my child’s safety and emotional wellbeing above social niceties and every other family relationship, including my marriage.

I actually felt sick reading everything that has gone on, OP. Biting? Soiling?? So sad.

I think it would be a good time to have a chat with your child about keeping secrets. If anyone has ever asked them to keep a secret from mummy and daddy then that’s naughty. Explain that not keeping secrets from mummy and always telling mummy the truth is how we keep you safe etc etc.
Also talk about private parts and who is and isn’t allowed to see them and in what circumstances. Like grown ups at nursery helping her go to the toilet or you and DH at home. Even if nothing has gone on, this is good practice going forward to keep her safe from anyone with bad intentions.

Whatever the reason, your children are very unhappy around him. Wetting themselves all afternoon etc is not normal and i'd lead with this when explaining but yes I'd definitely stop all unsupervised contact. Maybe you could say to your OH the dynamic isn't working and they need a break (if you feel you can't say everything you've said here).

In recent safeguarding training I attended we were told never to ask the question ‘What if I’m wrong?’ about a situation which makes us feel uncomfortable but always, ‘What if I’m right?’. A really powerful guiding principle.

THIS!!!
such excellent advice for you OP

exactly.and children dont always vocalise. or wont the second time. if this continues. your child will now have heard you cant,wont protect him or wont listen or believe him. your very lucky he didnt do this first. because the next time he will just stay silent. take it inwards.and literally suffer those effect forever.