TW - AIBU to be worried about inappropriate play?

[Lookingforanswers1234]

Looking for perspectives and advice here. I have 2 DC, one a toddler and one a baby.

My FIL has looked after DC1 for one day a week since about 12 months old, so almost 2 years now. This was at FIL’s suggestion.

Over the past year I’ve gradually cut that back to just an afternoon, for various reasons, and have found the arrangement trying. FIL is not happy about reduced time.

Lately I’ve had this feeling in the pit of my stomach that something may not be right, that I can’t shift, but I have nothing ‘solid’ to go on.

A few examples of things that are odd include:

• DC cried hysterically when FIL picked them up from preschool recently, said “he made me sad, I wanted to see you Mummy”. FIL seemed very angry about it. I’ve never seen my child that upset. DC also didn’t want FIL to look at them or come anywhere near them. DC is potty trained but wet themselves constantly all of that afternoon.
• FIL once bit their finger, a couple of months ago, when they were ‘playing’. I was napping upstairs with baby and DC came upstairs and said (name) bit my finger. There was a mark on DC’s finger and FIL said oh yes, we were Playing and it was an accident.
• They ‘play’ in a physical way, tickling, playing ‘doggies’ and rough-housing.
• DC has lately had ‘big’ reactions with FIL, saying ‘No’ and shouting repeatedly when they are playing.
• the other week I walked around the corner and the baby had crawled onto his crotch when he was sitting down. The baby being there wasn’t the problem, because babies do climb on people, it was the fact that he had his hands back and let the baby climb over his crotch and then start to pull up to stand, and he only moved the baby away very quickly when I came into the room. He had a funny look on his face. It just didn’t sit well with me.
• the latest afternoon he was over, DC came upstairs when I was having a nap with baby and made it clear they did not want to be around FIL anymore. FIL seemed annoyed when I said I would take DC out for a walk by myself while he kept an ear out for the baby who was napping. I heard him parrot what DC said in a mocking voice, when he thought I couldn’t hear.

I have had repeated conversations with FIL about certain boundaries e.g. screen time. He has repeatedly outright ignored these things and a couple of times challenged me, saying that he believes that children should be free to make their own choices and shouldn’t be coerced into things e.g. wearing shoes to go outside in freezing cold weather. DC is not even 3. I have limited contact partially because I can’t trust him to stick to things that my DH and I have agreed. DH agrees on the boundaries that we have set and has had a word to FIL about keeping to these. Aside from that, DH feels I can be too critical of his DD.

FIL is a bit eccentric. By his own admission he does not pick up on social cues and believes himself to be on the spectrum.

I mentioned the hysterical crying and afternoon of soiling/wetting to a family member, who immediately said that it would be a red flag for her and it’s been on my mind since then. What I can’t work out is whether I’m being too paranoid/anxious and overprotective, or whether these things are genuine red flags that anyone should rightly be concerned about. Some of these examples could just be that DC has had enough and wants time with their mum!

The thought of being right makes me feel sick, as does the thought of being wrong. These things may all be nothing on their own, but it’s starting to add up and I’ve had this on my mind overnight. I need some perspective.

So AIBU?

Hello @MelloYellow the link is distressing to read. The conversation I had with husband was only around child’s discomfort and wanting to limit contact, not specifically saying I’m worried that something could be going on. I don’t feel comfortable saying that at all… He would never think/believe that anything could happen like that.

Was hoping someone else might mentioned it first but here goes.... Maybe your dh has his own issues to address now....
Won't give details but my dh was 40 before he disclosed an incident regarding one of his dps..
Luckily were nc anyway...

You need to be your child's advocate in this situation, they are too little to be able to advocate for themselves. Your DS is very clearly voicing to you that he isn't happy and your gut instinct is there for a reason. I'd 100% rather be seen as over reacting in a situation like this than not listen to my gut and god forbid something actually happen to my child.
Your DH needs to put your child's feelings before a grown man's.

I think FILs lack of awareness is weird too. Like my dad would find it odd if my son wet himself all afternoon and would query it with me. Similar to other posters, my kids love 'rough me up' with my dad. Sometimes it goes too far but my kids are never scared and consistently seek comfort from my dad like they do with me/my mum etc. My kids are only ever excited to see my dad. Sometimes I'll say we are going to my parents and if they're mid film/ or activity they might moan a bit but always come round and end up super excited. Trust your gut. Trusting your instincts doesn't mean they won't have a relationship, but worst case scenario of not trusting yourself doesn't bear thinking about.

Jesus christ. No contact now fil.

Your child is telling you, both verbally and physically, that they do not want to be near FIL. If you (or rather DH) insist on contact then YOU must be there too. Based on your DHs reaction I would not trust him to supervise properly without popping down the shops etc. It is his dad after all and he could be in denial.

You can go back to how it was once your child is older and able to communicate their distress better, if the want too.

He might come round. Give him time to process what you're saying. I think him being defensiveness over a parent is predictable. Sometimes you just need to let someone sit with information and mull it over.

Agree with everyone else. Trust your instincts. Find alternative childcare. FIL can see your child only when you're there. That's not that unusual - my children have never actually been alone with my parents (and I get on great with them!) - albeit due to distance admittedly.

But he's not FIL's child. He's yours. Let him be pissed off. Repeat - not your problem. Smile, supervise, never leave alone.

I agree you should stop unsupervised visits from how your child is behaving and your gut feeling.

I just wanted to add, I accidentally bit my son’s finger the other day while pretending to be a dinosaur. So it sounds strange but it could have been an accident by FIL. Did he have an explanation for it?

Absolutely trust your instincts. And trust your child. You can't go wrong by listening to your young child's concerns. And by listening I mean paying attention to all the communications.

And honestly the finger biting isn't weird. It's wrong. You simply can't bite a child's finger by accident. And if you did, you'd apologise profusely.

The wetting himself and soiling himself is a severe reaction that doesn't happen for no or for a little reason.

Do not have your children - either of them - spend time with FIL without you in the room. DH can't be trusted on this because he'll leave them alone together.

Good friend had this (screaming scared reaction) when she was leaving her speech delayed 4yr old with their father. The nursery ended up flagging SA indications. It should have been enough the child was scared and uncomfortable with him to cut contact.

Trust your instincts as a mother.

This gives me the chill. Listen to your gut instinct.

Hi OP
yes it is very distressing and of course in the extreme,I just worry that preschool would make a correlation between soiling and FIL pick ups.OP your child acting this way is important and you’re going completely the right thing.
Do you think he reacted that way because those thoughts are in his mind also and he finds it hard to process?

Follow your instincts! Only have contact with the grandfather when you and/or your husband are with him and the children.

Tell them you've made more convenient arrangements. Then be alert but hope it all means nothing, which is of course what I and the rest of us hope.

Good luck.

Why are you permitting these things To continue happening to your children. It isn’t going to stop is it?

Your instincts as their mum trump everything else. But also they're not happy, that in itself is all you need to stop sending them there.

Please stop contact immediately. Your husband's relationship with his dad is also a red flag. It suggests your FIL manipulates your partner into prioritising his dad's needs and wishes above protecting your children.

If you need some back up in order to deal with your husband, please call NSPCC for guidance. You shouldn't need to do this, but it might be a helpful move.

Please trust your gut. There’s behavior here that you have deep concern about in terms of your children’s well being - their safety is and should be your priority. The stakes are incredibly high and you do not need a justification beyond your gut feelings here. Your FIL doesn’t have a “right” to unsupervised time, so set your boundary wherever you’re comfortable.

In regards to the “less” concerning behaviour - (eg. getting unreasonably angry about being thwarted) all of this is 🚩🚩🚩 for a controlling and abusive mindset. Bear in mind that this man raised your DH and that there can be a lot of toxic denial and shame in families where unadmitted abuse (of any kind) has formed part of the backdrop of daily life. When you set your boundaries, part of what may be going on for your DH is a conflict between his love for his father, what he has accepted his whole life as “normal”, and what you’re telling him is suspect or unacceptable behaviour. If he accepts your view it also means accepting on some level that what he grew up with is problematic. It seems like common sense, to me, to consider this because you have to find a path through things. But I’m no expert or professional - am just suggesting it as something to consider.

Might be worth reading the Lundy Bancroft book ‘Why Does He Do That?’ (easiest to download on kindle app) to see whether FIL’s behavior also aligns with an abusive mentality across the board.

I really hope you and your little ones are ok and that you’re able to hold your ground on this.

Thanks @MelloYellow . DC has only recently started at the preschool and it’s a bigger setting, so I’m not sure if they would make a connection as it’s different members of staff. But I will start doing all pick ups now. With my husband, I think I’ll need to give him a day or so to calm down. I don’t think he has made any connection at all, and I’m not sure how he would react if I said what I’m actually, genuinely thinking. I think the reaction would be even more defensive and upset. He’d have a hard time believing or accepting it. So I’ll have to change arrangements and take it into my own hands.

You are doing the right thing. I would do the same.

In explaining it to your husband / fil if you have to…rehearse a simple non-inflammatory but true statement.
The children are obviously not happy.
It makes me uncomfortable and worried.
I’ve decided it’s best for them to only spend time with them when I am here too.

You don’t need to say anything else.

If there’s nothing in it he will just peg you down as an over anxious Mother - who cares.

If there’s something in it you have protected your children.

*him

@Lookingforanswers1234 you are doing the right thing, I wish I had a mum like you when I was a child 💐

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, go you mama! Advocating for your child, despite all the hurdles and challenges. You are incredible. It’s a shame your husband is prioritising his father’s feelings over his own child’s, the one human he needs to protect. It isn’t up to your son/daughter to please FIL, it isn’t even up to you guys. FIL is a grown ass adult - his feelings are his own responsibility. Your child is your responsibility and If you limit unsupervised contact, then you’re doing a stellar job as a parent ❤️

Please trust your instincts.
Having a baby crawl all over your crotch and to encourage it is not healthy .

Ditto “ Doggies?“

Jeez just NO.