Page 5 | Manager said no to holiday request

MyGrandmaLizzie · 15/02/2023 18:00

eighteenthirteen1 · 15/02/2023 16:56

I pretty much disagree with almost every post on here. You all sound like PITA employees

?
Are you the PITA manager?

OriginalUsername2 · 15/02/2023 18:01

Buddythecat1 · 15/02/2023 16:13

I'm probably going to get my arse handed to me on a plate here but fck it.
I asked for two days off on Monday just passed
I asked 10 days in advance.
Just been told today that it's been refused.
I asked why, was told 'I don't know'

I am very hot headed and I have such strong temptation to walk put right now. (I have another thread about my contract if anybody cares)
I've been spoken to like shit by this manager, talked down to on a daily basis, I've been micromanaged.
I dread coming to work, I cry most days. Management allowed another employee to verbally abuse me and no consequences were ever brought to the other person.

Would I be totally unreasonable to walk out? The thought of never having to work in this place again gives me great relief. Or am I just being stupid and should suck it up

You definitely need to leave but don’t cut your nose off to spite your face - get something else lined up and then smugly hand in your notice instead!

I know it’s crappy but not having any money is horrible.

Original poster

Buddythecat1 · 15/02/2023 18:02

Hopefully to clear it up, I'm not on a rota system, I do the same hours and days all the time.
There is one other employee I work alongside but the job can definitely be done by just one person.
I used to do the job by myself, hence I got asked to do more hours as somebody left when I said (hence the pt contract)
There is no reason (imho) that my manager saying no, is business related. No reason at all, its not busy, it stays the same pace. Me being off does not affect managers or the other person. Otherwise if that was the case why not say so? But then would also mean that I couldn't take any holidays because 1 one of us would always be alone.
I can't see any reason that this was refused, other than to be spiteful

OP posts:

Greenfairydust · 15/02/2023 18:03

But this is not a holiday though. You need time off for a hospital appointment which is very different.

I would contact HR and send a copy of your appointment letter and say that unfortunately the appointment cannot be rescheduled and that you need to attend and that you were only notified by the hospital recently.

If they still refuse, I would simply call in sick.

You are obviously looking for a new role so there is no reason to play nice...

GoodChat · 15/02/2023 18:03

OP this sounds horrific. What kind of place do you work at? Is it a big company?

Original poster

Buddythecat1 · 15/02/2023 18:04

And yes when I first asked for the two days off, I did not give a reason as to why (I kind of had a feeling manager 2 was going to say no, hence asking manager 1)
Manager 2 asked me twice what it's for, I relented and told her and I said I need this time off, if they can't grant it then I'll leave its not really negotiable.
Manager 2 came back saying manager 1 refused

OP posts:

Original poster

Buddythecat1 · 15/02/2023 18:05

GoodChat · 15/02/2023 18:03

OP this sounds horrific. What kind of place do you work at? Is it a big company?

I'm contracted within another company
Other managers above my managers are located elsewhere so there isn't a HR person within the building which makes it harder

OP posts:

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 15/02/2023 18:07

I am so sorry to read this, your work-place sounds dreadful. The temptation just to walk must be so strong, but I agree with others who suggest you'd be better off giving notice once you have another contract for a new job firmly in place, unless you have a lot of financial backing to keep you going whilst you job hunt. Good luck with your interview on Friday, please let us know how you get on with it. I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you.

Original poster

Buddythecat1 · 15/02/2023 18:10

I don't have much money, but I'm due to be paid next week (Fortnightly pay) and pay from this week 2 weeks after, so I think I'd be okay and my partner could join an agency for something temp, there's ways to make it work but it's taking that leap. We have 4 kids and I don't want ro fuck us over, especially with the COL

I probably will relent and go in tomorrow, I just do as I'm told and will cry about it in my own time but it's wrecked my mental health. I've felt for a long time that manager 2 wants to get rid of me, it's becoming more and more clear just how much they want that

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GoodChat · 15/02/2023 18:10

Is there a contactable HR? I'd be tempted to raise a grievance or hand your notice in and request garden leave as the position is untenable.

CalmBeforeStorm01 · 15/02/2023 18:11

I know what you mean. I was brought up in an area preserved for locals and lived there for 24 years. Now I want to go back and retire but can't afford to as I'm not considered local enough. It's a joke really.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 15/02/2023 18:14

Comefromaway · 15/02/2023 17:51

You need to stand up for yourself because as far as I can see, the second manager is breaking the law by refusing to give you a reason why leave hasn’t been granted. If you’ve given the required notice, refusal has to be for clear business reasons. You don’t know that if they haven’t told you.

That is not correct. No reason for holiday refusal need be given. However the OP must be allowed to take a minimum of 20 days actual holiday in the year (the rest can be carried over or paid in lieu)

An employer has to allow 28 days minimum annual leave during the year, as a statutory requirement and there is no legal right for an employee to carry over unused annual leave. It depends what’s in the contract, and there will usually be a maximum permitted. And an employee is entitled to raise a grievance if annual leave is refused without explanation, as the employer needs to show it’s for business reasons.

Cocobutt · 15/02/2023 18:14

Carry on going to work as normal but look for work elsewhere.

Work your notice but include any owed holiday in it too.

How come you’ve stayed for so long?

Original poster

Buddythecat1 · 15/02/2023 18:17

Cocobutt · 15/02/2023 18:14

Carry on going to work as normal but look for work elsewhere.

Work your notice but include any owed holiday in it too.

How come you’ve stayed for so long?

I had nowhere else to go
I've put up with manager 2 for a while but it wasn't until they questioned whether I was really unwell to work or I was skiving that made me like wtf
And I actually went to the Dr's back in December about my depression but now I'm realising it's probably my extreme toxic work environment that's caused it

OP posts:

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 15/02/2023 18:20

Go for the interview and do your best. Then leave if you get the new job (hopefully you will)

It doesn’t sound right that they have turned this down with no reason, esp if it’s for a medical appointment. I also thought that medical appointments were neither a/l not sick leave but that might be down to the specific contract.

I agree with leaving and then getting them to pay your accrued leave

MMUmum · 15/02/2023 18:20

Usual rule wherever I've worked has been notice period of twice the leave requested, eg 2 days holiday needs 4 days notice, but it can still be refused

BaconMassive · 15/02/2023 18:20

Just leave, look after your health.

It's an employees market out there so I'm certain you'll pick up something else quickly.

Like all the advice on here not to waste time on a bad partner, don't waste your time on a bad job/bad managers. If HR ask - tell them the truth.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 15/02/2023 18:21

Or if you get signed off sick with stress or depression they can’t tell you “you’re not allowed to be off sick”.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 15/02/2023 18:22

Dacadactyl · 15/02/2023 17:57

Not if you're on a rota system and other staff have already booked it off before you.

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Which is a totally different situation and down to local and specific arrangements. The legal requirement is two days notice for one days’ leave plus one day. If the employer refuses it or cancels it for operational reasons they have to give you the same amount of notice as the amount of leave you’ve booked, plus one day.

profaniti · 15/02/2023 18:23

Are you happy to share what industry you work in? My advice would be to join a union, and I'm happy to help you find one if you let me know what industry you work in.

Can you share your company holiday policy, and also your grevience and disciplinary policy? You union rep would review those and then advise if you could raise a grievance on discrimination grounds, which might be possible with what you have shared here.

They would also be able to support you if your company decides to take you through a formal disciplinary process and make sure you are supported and represented fairly.

I'm sorry you are going through this stress. 💜

MelaniesFlowers · 15/02/2023 18:26

Whatsshecalled · 15/02/2023 16:16

Surely they HAVE to give a reason? They can't just say no if you have annual leave left and you're not in a role with extra pressure around end of financial year or whatever it might be?

No, they don’t have to give a reason. Employers could dictate exactly when you take your annual leave if they wanted to.

Allblackeverythingalways · 15/02/2023 18:27

Regarding the hospital appointment, tell, don't ask.
Attend your interview, with any luck you'll get it, then leave.
Don't let them walk over you

anon2022anon · 15/02/2023 18:29

I believe I remember your previous threads.

The company is breaking employment law by not giving you breaks (regardless of contract, it's shift length that matters).
The company is breaking the law by not letting you take your holiday days (not that specific day, but over the past year).
The company is breaking employment law by putting you on sick when it's parental leave.
You need to leave there.

First and foremost, ring in sick with stress tomorrow. Send an email and copy HR in. Take yourself to docs if you can.

Next, this is what I would do. go through of all of your text messages and emails where you tell your boss you're off with your child, copy the messages, and dates.
Go through anything where you tell them about the bullying, do the same. Anything requesting holidays. The dates you actually had holidays, any payslips that tell your holiday accrual (if you don't get these, it's another way they're breaking the law). If you don't have the amount of holidays accrued, you can work it out on the gov.uk site with details of hours worked. Write down dates of shifts, and the times worked without a break. If you have a work email, send all that have evidence against them to yourself.
I would be tempted then to go to a no win/ no fee solicitor and get some advice, or see if your home insurance has legal expenses.
If not, send everything you have to HR (copies, keep originals yourself), and watch the fucker burn. Tell them that you are off with work related stress, and this is why.

ReformedWaywardTeen · 15/02/2023 18:29

This sounds like a nightmare and they are using your fear and anxiety to deny you basic rights in the workplace. Is any of this documented in email or writing?

I would speak to ACAS, anyone can I believe for advice. I would also leave and pursue a claim for constructive dismissal in the grounds of unreasonable behaviour and workplace bullying. Go to the GP regards the stress and anxiety and make it clear so it is on official record that the company and specifically that manager are responsible and nothing else.
They want you out, denying you a break is a joke and if you have need for leave and have told them ten days before I see no reason to deny it. It feels like they pushing you to call in sick so they can sack you for misconduct. Don't allow it

BillyMack · 15/02/2023 18:30

Buddythecat1 · 15/02/2023 17:41

He knows I do the extra hours, the manager was the one to request I do more hours

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Are you being paid these extra hours?