Manager said no to holiday request

[Buddythecat1]

I'm probably going to get my arse handed to me on a plate here but fck it.
I asked for two days off on Monday just passed
I asked 10 days in advance.
Just been told today that it's been refused.
I asked why, was told 'I don't know'

I am very hot headed and I have such strong temptation to walk put right now. (I have another thread about my contract if anybody cares)
I've been spoken to like shit by this manager, talked down to on a daily basis, I've been micromanaged.
I dread coming to work, I cry most days. Management allowed another employee to verbally abuse me and no consequences were ever brought to the other person.

Would I be totally unreasonable to walk out? The thought of never having to work in this place again gives me great relief. Or am I just being stupid and should suck it up

No he is not correct if you work more than 6 hours in a day you are entitled to a break. It doesn't matter what the contract says. If they ask you to do more you have a verbal contract to go over 6 hours and they legally have to give you a break.

Workers have the right to one uninterrupted 20 minute rest break during their working day, if they work more than 6 hours a day. This could be a tea or lunch break. The break doesn't have to be paid - (gov.uk)

I - trying to be generous- would say perhaps the manager didn't realise you were not doing the 5 hours only that day. However, you should feel able to say " oh I am doing 6-7-8 hours shift today so right now is my break.

Good luck for Friday interview.

It doesn’t matter that your contract is for a five hour shift. If you actually work more than 6 hours then you are legally entitled to the 20 min break.

I think it really boils down to how you see this panning out? It sounds like there's quite a toxic culture and your rights seem hazy. No manager should wreck your head this much. You should join a union but it won't help just now as you need to be a registered member for a specified amount of time before you can access their representation. Looking to the future, you're clearly not going to be happy there (especially under this manager) so if you can afford to leave without finding another role first then I would just go.

He knows I do the extra hours, the manager was the one to request I do more hours

You're still entitled to a break as a part-time employee if you're working 6 hours or more.

I walked out of a job once because they refused my holiday. My supervisor threw the request on my desk and said ‘no sorry’. Handed in my notice the next day. My regret to this day (it was 20 years ago) was not telling the big boss why I went. I said I was refused holiday and she asked if I was told in a satisfactory manner, I said yes. I just wish I had said ‘no that Debbie bitch spoke to me like a POS and threw the request on my desk.’ I was only young and didn’t have the balls to say it.

So I say just go.

If you can afford to leave, I would just do that.

They're taking the absolute piss out of you.

An underlying health condition has to meet the legal definition of a disability. This is is defined as a physical or mental impairment having a substantial long-term adverse effect on the person's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. Long term is at least 12 months and substantial is more than minor or trivial - for example if it takes much longer than it usually would to complete a daily task. The condition needs to be identified and the employer needs to be made aware of it - they can’t make adjustments if they are not aware so the OP shouldn’t leave it until her sick leave becomes job threatening.

Then you are entitled to a break and he knows it.

Is one of the days that you requested to enable you to attend the interview?

I would ask HR about this. You can, in some jobs, appeal holiday decisions, but you could take it up as a grievance if not. Especially as it's a hospital appointment, you should have good grounds.

Considering everything else, I would heavily encourage you to speak to HR about the manager.

Line up another job before you walk.

You need to stand up for yourself because as far as I can see, the second manager is breaking the law by refusing to give you a reason why leave hasn’t been granted. If you’ve given the required notice, refusal has to be for clear business reasons. You don’t know that if they haven’t told you.

No that's on Friday, as in two days time and they aren't aware I have it
I'm staying late tomorrow so I can leave early on Friday to be able to attend

from gov.uk website

The general notice period for taking leave is at least twice as long as the amount of leave a worker wants to take, plus 1 day. For example, a worker would give 3 days' notice for 1 day's leave.

AS already stated elsewhere. Some jobs write certain restrictions into their contract. Like when I worked for JLP I was not entitled to take holiday in December. some will say x weeks of notice. My current job (with a big provider) doesn't have any set time. AS I am a loneworker I get what holiday I Ask for as long as I have the hours available. I still got to do the work when I return :) What you need to do and what I need to do to give holiday however doesn't help op :).. Her contract says as much as possible so that defaults to the law. As quoted above.

all I can say is I wish you very well with your job interview on Friday. Chin up and be confident and hopefully you can leave this horrible employer. If not keep trying - you'll get there in the end.

You need to stand up for yourself because as far as I can see, the second manager is breaking the law by refusing to give you a reason why leave hasn’t been granted. If you’ve given the required notice, refusal has to be for clear business reasons. You don’t know that if they haven’t told you.

That is not correct. No reason for holiday refusal need be given. However the OP must be allowed to take a minimum of 20 days actual holiday in the year (the rest can be carried over or paid in lieu)

Apologies if anyone has mentioned this already, but the Acas website has lots of useful information, particularly helpful if you're not in a union www.acas.org.uk/advice

I wouldn’t. It sounds as thought the OP has a health condition which could possibly be defined legally as a disability. That’s a protected characteristic and she has rights from day one. If her condition qualifies, she needs to inform her employer, who needs to make reasonable adjustment, including paid time off for hospital appointments and disability related treatment, which may possibly have to be regarded as disability leave and not sickness. If she is disabled according to the legal definition and they don’t make reasonable adjustment, and the OP is forced to leave, she may well have grounds for constructive dismissal. OP, you need to get advice from DWP about how to proceed. Ask to see a disablement employment adviser at any Jobcentre and they’ll help you.

I’ve never had to give a month in any job and that’s big global corporates down to 4 staff in a tiny office.

A months notice for 2 days leave is ridiculous

I don't have a health condition, I have 4 children who are germ carriers and bring home bugs and the like
The bugs being what felt like the flu just before Christmas, except I had v&d with it
Then it affected my ears, I had an ear infection then it spread to the other ear, that was the time off before and over Christmas.
Other days off we're for v&d too, or just felt extremely run down and yes I know I can't take time off for the slightest sniffle but being on your feet for 8 hours a day when you aren't feeling your best is grueling, especially as it's an hour walk to grt there and an hours walk home.

The hospital appointment is unbelievably minor and not a reoccurring thing

Not if you're on a rota system and other staff have already booked it off before you.

If you decide to leave and your current employer refuses to pay you for your untaken holiday leave, you can pursue an employment tribunal claim for unlawful deduction of wages. I'm not an employment solicitor but I believe the limitation period to issue the claim is 3 months from the date the wages should have been paid (which might be whatever your final salary date is). You should contact ACAS for advice - they may ask that you raise the issue with your employer first.

unlawfuldeductionofwages

@Dacadactyl OP's not on a rota system