....to think men are, sorry, but AWFUL

[TrainteaAnnie]

Straight woman, mid thirties. Have had three 3 year relationships. Everyone one seemed like the 'nice' guy, the kind you can trust..
One caught with porn addiction, one found dm'ing other girls on social media, one outright cheated while drunk on a lads holiday.
I'm dating a lovely man now, but I honestly just had this feeling like... It's inevitable, at some point, he's gonna be like all the rest. I can't trust him although he's not given me reason not to.
And then there's life, every night I come on Mumsnet and read another horror story of some poor married woman, often with young DC completely blindsided by a discovery of infidelity. Or a woman married for 40 years to her best friends finding out he's used prostitutes for their entire marriage.
In the news, Megan Fox being cheated on. That horrid situation with Joe Westerman.
It's everywhere, endlessly. Men driven by their dicks ruining women's lives. Women who trust and love them. It makes me feel ok physically sick thinking about it all. I feel like I never want to talk to this guy I'm dating again even though, maybe 10 years ago, I'd be in love with him. I just emotionally can't do it anymore. Men are awful.

Help!

Nope. Didn’t forget to type anything.

Again, please bore off. None of your comments are productive or helpful to society’s issue of how women are perceived by men.

What makes you think you have the right to tell me what to do?

You really are the queen of hypocrisy.

Because you are a man, trying to tell women how awful we are for daring to speak up about society’s issue on how men perceive and treat women.

Your comments aren’t helpful or productive to the thread.

You as a man will never understand what it’s like to live as woman. You as a man will never understand what it’s like to constantly be on the receiving end of sexual harassment from men.
You as a man fail to understand that it’s not all men, but it’s we don’t know which men are awful.

You have no idea. You are so closed minded and defensive. You. Are. Not. Helping.

If you are going to patronisingly tell me "what I am trying to tell women" at least get it right. I have spoken up about the utterly idiotic idea that all men are bastards. THAT idea isn't helpful or productive to society as a whole.

And then you laughingly state "you are so closed minded". Your hypocrisy really is off the scale.

I think you're spot on.

Can I add to that I know plenty of awful men who committed in their 30s. Trust me because some of them were my exes or close friends and I know their character very well! Many of them haven’t really changed their behaviours after marriage.

You don’t get it, sadly. Do you?

We know it’s not all men that are bastards. We simply don’t know which ones are bastards. Thus living in fear and having difficulty trusting men in general.

So for a man to come onto a thread, written by a woman, asking for the opinions of women, trying to argue and mansplain, is pretty damn poor.

I work in nursing where there is a lot of cheating. There are so many men in their late 30’s/40’s who are married and either incredibly flirty or full on cheating with girls in their early-mid twenties. In every place I’ve worked.

However, I have also worked with a few women who weren’t much better. I definitely think it’s more commonplace with men though.

Yay, there you go again with your blatant sexism.

I originally came onto the thread because the OP stated that "men are awful". And please show me where the OP has specifically asked for the opinions of women.

I actually don’t think all men are awful but having been OLD recently after avoiding it for months I’m encountering some of the worst of male humanity on there. Men who keep pressing you for your number without making any concrete plans for a date or demanding “more pics” or ones who are subtly looking to use a woman for a passport.

I don’t give most of those men my number but I can only imagine if I had how many crude comments and images I’d have had via WhatsApp. I did have to block one as he made a sleazy comment which indicated he was going to send me a “surprise”. I’m really disgusted by the entitlement of these men.

And some men pretend to be offended when we exercise caution. One guy Invited himself to fly from Ireland to stay in my apartment and acted really indignant when I said no way. I think if more women felt more confident to speak up and say they find certain male behaviour disconcerting, things would be better but unfortunately they are gaslighted on the regular by both men and women.

It isn’t sexism.

Sorry that you simply can’t understand that.

Instead of being defensive over the subject you need to be proactive and speak to your male peers about society’s current issues on how women are treated and perceived.

Women don’t feel safe. We don’t know who we can and can’t trust. Do I really need to go over the cases of Sarah Everard, Bobbie-Anne McCleod and Zara Aleena all over again?

It’s up to the men to challenge the behaviours of their male peers, family and colleagues. If they don’t. They are part of the problem.

You can continue to try and argue with me all you like. But it won’t get you anywhere. I find it quite sad that a grown man wants to argue with women about how women feel instead of trying to understand our views and experiences.

But yeah, you brand it as “sexism” and continue to tantrum.

Take care.

I think charitably that a lot of men grade women and treat them in different ways. That is just not talked about.

There is often a wife and child to men who commit hateful crimes against other women, or even circumstances where women ignore their abusive men or knowingly let it happen to them or their children. This is about maintaining status - other women police this effectively in a lot of cases.

This is what this thread is about, social policing of women and what relationships they have. My view is that this changing quite fast, as women are better educated and are doing better than their male contemporaries.

Where do women take the hit to that - it's having children, change to a career and suddenly being at home with all the socks. That is still on offer to a lot of educated young women, they used to be called the college wife, ie clever enough to get a degree but not demanding enough to do anything with it.

Young women seem to be less keen to even get to the long term relationships that might lead to children. They are leaving it much later. This has its own issues of course, but the nuclear family arrangement looks like something that fewer and fewer women will do. It comes with some big risks.

And I know people will say yea but the man commits but honestly the risk is not the same for him. Shakespeare wrote of men that they were lover, protector and friend. I still think that is what straight women want. It's just that when it's not there, they have the means to say no and live independently.

"Mansplain" - blatant sexism. Sorry that you simply can’t understand that.

And if ANY man I knew was abusive towards women, physically, mentally, verbally or otherwise, they'd be getting reported to the police.

Let’s hope so.

Take care.

Can you swap the 'we' for 'I' please?

You speak about helpful and productive but sowing fear is neither.

Some women may well live in fear but some choose not to.

Some women reject men in fear of not meeting the right person but some persevere and find their perfect partner.

Back on topic, my OH had a previous relationship with a single parent and looked after those kids as his own. Her ex paid zero maintenance so he supported them. Worked two jobs to bring enough in. They didn't have much money so he let her go out with any spare cash, whilst he looked after her kids. Little did he know that she was shagging someone else and lining up another partner who more importantly earned more money and could provide a better life.

It's interesting as he could've come out of that relationship hating women but didn't. We've been together 25 years now and counting.

In the context of the OP, women can be just as hurtful, callous and crappy as men.

OP, my experience of men has been the same, and I'm 59 so 40 years of selfishness, dishonesty and attempted manipulation. The occasional decent one in the mix.

And yet I have a ds, who is kind and generous hearted. He's still a teen so I guess that there's time for him to go horribly wrong, but I'll been making my disapproval felt, loud and clear, if he ever behaves like that.

I've raised him to be decent. I want to be proud of him. I am proud of him so far. I'll have his ears off if he doesn't behave honourably. 😂

We have to be responsible for, and optimistic about, the next generation.

LexMitior, 'women are better educated' this is not exactly a new phenomenon, you had all those choices 20 years ago. You could live independently if you wanted. I just find that bizarre, society has become more sexualised and that has correspondingly led to the greater objectification of women not lessened it. I actually think my DD is not as free as I was at 12 as this culture is insipid, it is oppressive as there are crude definitions of gender for example that just didn't exist when I was her age, e.g you could have a short hair cut and it wasn't considered masculine.

Some women may well live in fear but some choose not to.

Thats good for them. I really wish I could choose not to live in fear.

It’s pretty damn difficult after being on the receiving end of multiple instances of sexual harassment and sexual assaults. Starting from the age of 11 right up until this very past week at the age of 29.

It’s also pretty damn difficult to understand the “not all men” posts because in my experience, it is most men who are awful.

Some women reject men in fear of not meeting the right person but some persevere and find their perfect partner.

Pretty patronising slap in the face isn’t it to all the woman who persevered and still were abused, assaulted and murdered by the men who they thought were their perfect partners. Isn’t it?

But hey, let’s blame women for making poor choices and not having the guts or bravery to persevere.

With specifics to this, how is it sexism if it's true ?

@Goldenbear - don't disagree. Why there is more objectification is complex. Is it just the internet? Is it porn? Is it the fact that we all have cameras in our pockets? Do we want these things or did someone decide?

The point is young women have more choices with their own money. And they are acting differently in greater numbers than before.

Is it objectification? Yes, you are right. It is the opposite of romance. Our world is not a very romantic one. It is really, really crass compared to twenty years ago.

Making life choices isn't victim blaming is it?

You're spectacularly missing the point and adding another side order of unhelpful and unproductive stuff on top. Unfortunately I can see that you're just looking for the worst in whatever people are posting. I get it, you've had a terrible experience and I sympathise but your experience doesn't get to take precedence over anyone else's on this board.

The issue isn't whether you choose to look for a partner or not. Just that we're all different and we make our own choices and value judgements.

However, it's you that seems to want to ridicule anyone that posts an alternate view to your life of fear. "People are blind". Now that's patronising. I'm not blind as the horrors of the world are quite evident. But some choose to work around things instead of being defined by them.

Not my experience at all. Current DP and one ex were/is a bit lazy. There were other incompatibility issues with others. Cheating / strippers /porn addiction have never been an issue. Ever. So YABU to generalise.

I don't trust DP to do the dishes after dinner but I do 100% trust him not to cheat.

I’ve been single for some time and whilst I’ll never say never, I have no desire to meet anyone at present and have sort of resigned myself to the fact that I’ll be on my own now. I’m fine with this (most of the time). I’ve just been let down so many times and each failed relationship has left me a little more jaded than the last. I have also been with some kind and loving men where we have just split up because it’s fizzled out or that spark simply wasn’t there. I’ve actually had more good men in my life than bad, but it’s the bad ones that have influenced my decision to remain single. I sometimes wonder how many potentially great relationships I’ve not pursued or bothered putting the effort into because of a few bad experiences. I have definitely found myself sabotaging relationships early on, ended it before they had the opportunity to hurt me and as a PP has just said, made them pay for the twats that have come before them. How many good men have been dismissed through no fault of their own, it’s just that the woman he’s met has been so damaged by some tosser that she’s too afraid to give him a chance.
Sometimes I do see a happy couple or friends in good relationships and I feel that I’d like that too but then I read another story about a woman that’s been cheated on by her husband of 30 years or hear a friend complaining that she thinks her man has ‘been up to his old tricks again’ and I just think thank goodness I don’t have a man in my life.

I have.
And what I’ve seen is mostly saying how wonerful men are.
So what do you mean?

And if some comments aren’t pandering to men, it’s women saying what man/men have done to them/ someone they know.

No one has threatened men, fantasized raping them, wanted to take their rights away, list goes on.

All your silly comment showed me is how privileged and lucky men are.
You really have nothing to worry about.

I mean, he didn't come out dead, raped or physically injured did he? So I don't think that shows that "women can be just as hurtful, callous and crappy as men."