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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

....to think men are, sorry, but AWFUL

855 replies

TrainteaAnnie · 15/02/2023 08:03

Straight woman, mid thirties. Have had three 3 year relationships. Everyone one seemed like the 'nice' guy, the kind you can trust..
One caught with porn addiction, one found dm'ing other girls on social media, one outright cheated while drunk on a lads holiday.
I'm dating a lovely man now, but I honestly just had this feeling like... It's inevitable, at some point, he's gonna be like all the rest. I can't trust him although he's not given me reason not to.
And then there's life, every night I come on Mumsnet and read another horror story of some poor married woman, often with young DC completely blindsided by a discovery of infidelity. Or a woman married for 40 years to her best friends finding out he's used prostitutes for their entire marriage.
In the news, Megan Fox being cheated on. That horrid situation with Joe Westerman.
It's everywhere, endlessly. Men driven by their dicks ruining women's lives. Women who trust and love them. It makes me feel ok physically sick thinking about it all. I feel like I never want to talk to this guy I'm dating again even though, maybe 10 years ago, I'd be in love with him. I just emotionally can't do it anymore. Men are awful.

Help!

OP posts:
saraclara · 15/02/2023 17:27

@GrinAndVomit no-one, but no-one on this thread has suggested putting men first. But the number of people who have posted on here in a way that, had it been said about women, would probably be deleted.

If we expect decency from men, we need to have some decency ourselves.
Has feminism still got a way to go? Of course.
Is there a problem with violence in many men? Of course.

But the language and undiscriminating blatant hate for all men in this thread is appalling.

GrinAndVomit · 15/02/2023 17:31

saraclara · 15/02/2023 17:27

@GrinAndVomit no-one, but no-one on this thread has suggested putting men first. But the number of people who have posted on here in a way that, had it been said about women, would probably be deleted.

If we expect decency from men, we need to have some decency ourselves.
Has feminism still got a way to go? Of course.
Is there a problem with violence in many men? Of course.

But the language and undiscriminating blatant hate for all men in this thread is appalling.

I’ll tell you what is offensive, pretending that women “are just as bad” and listing a very few example of women perpetrating abuse.
It’s offensive pretending the 2% of sexual crimes which are committed by women is a significant enough number to compare to male abusers.
It’s offensive to mutter “misandry” and “sexism” while two women a week are being killed a week by men.

Ofcourseshecan · 15/02/2023 17:33

I know some wonderful men, including DH, and most of my male relatives and friends.

I have also been raped twice and harassed, sexually assaulted, followed intimidatingly, threatened, verbally abused, groped and exposed at more often than I could count. By a man or men, every time.

There is no equivalent for women. Women do not make the world dangerous or intimidating for men or boys.

placemats · 15/02/2023 17:34

I helped a friend get back into the saddle so to speak when she left her husband. She was 10 years younger than me and at that time I was late 40s. We were both single. She had more interest than me in the dating scene - she is rather beautiful. However her dates were dodgy to say the least. So I decided to go on an affair website. I was shocked at the number of men who had put themselves forward - arranged to talk to two and they were real! - this freaked me more but of the two only one sent a dick pic. In total the number was 30,000 in an area that is approximately 170,000 population.

I myself was on a dating site and after this decided to look for men who I thought would be interested in porn, some didn't reply but the majority said yes, they did love porn and was I interested?

My conclusion was never to live with a man in a relationship again. Having said that, my two daughters have partners and are very happy with them. I also have a son who is just a lovely young man.

5128gap · 15/02/2023 17:44

Obviously some men are good people.
However, the ones that aren't are more brutal, harmful and dangerous to women than could ever be the case the other way round.
Whenever there is a thread like this, the only defence of men seems to be to pretend that women are equally bad, despite all evidence to the contrary. It really does nothing to promote men if no one can think of anything positive with which to counter the OP, other than spouting this ridiculous false equivalence, or telling us how their Steve would never cheat.

CloakAndTin · 15/02/2023 17:49

the number of people who have posted on here in a way that, had it been said about women, would probably be deleted.

Can you highlight which comments @saraclara?

The comments here are really pretty tame - go have a look on some men's sites and see the onslaught of hatred, aggression and entitlement to women that many men spout.

BeatrixPottery · 15/02/2023 18:02

What @GoodChat says.

It’s hard to tell you but you’re a bit of anomaly in my sphere of knowledge, I don’t know anyone @TrainteaAnnie or have heard of anyone on the grapevine having had the luck you’ve had.

I’m thinking right back to my parents circle of friends, as well as mine and previous colleagues and I can only think of about 1 who was a real abusive bastard, 2 men who come anywhere close to what you’ve experienced and then probably 3 more who’ve cheated and subsequently treated the ex wife like shit. I’m 42.

I’m not doubting your experiences at all, and I feel very sorry for you must be ticking exhausting, but, I think it might be in the choosing and the circles and the mixing why it seems to be every other man to some people. Do you think that you’re subconsciously choosing a type. No one is that ‘unlucky’.

fingers crossed this one turns out to be a keeper, but, if not I think if you can spending some time with a therapist to try and unpick why you keep ending up with men like this might be good.

IndiaDreamer · 15/02/2023 18:02

5128gap · 15/02/2023 17:44

Obviously some men are good people.
However, the ones that aren't are more brutal, harmful and dangerous to women than could ever be the case the other way round.
Whenever there is a thread like this, the only defence of men seems to be to pretend that women are equally bad, despite all evidence to the contrary. It really does nothing to promote men if no one can think of anything positive with which to counter the OP, other than spouting this ridiculous false equivalence, or telling us how their Steve would never cheat.

My husband would never cheat, what am I supposed to say?

FellPuck · 15/02/2023 18:02

TicketBoo23 · 15/02/2023 10:06

The problem with that is financial.

We get tied up financially and people don't want to lose resources when they go they separate ways.

They also don't want to upset and destabilise kids. Sometimes even adult kids

Show quote history

In sure that's true for a lot of people,but both of those things - choosing to financially merge with another person and to have kids with them - are optional in the first place.

Of course, some people feel forced into doing them for various reasons.

Karma2023 · 15/02/2023 18:07

@theworldhas I don't think woman have lower sex drives. Men who have affairs, use prostitutes or are sexually abusive do so because it's about control and ego. Not sex.

@JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain Woman on the thread have given behaviours that they say men do that makes them unlikeable. What behaviour did you dislike about your Ex, rather than the label psycho?

I'm not reading that men need to be "obliterated" just that they need to change the negative behaviours so that women will want to have relationships with them.

JudgeJ · 15/02/2023 18:09

Lawandsawdus · 15/02/2023 08:10

I didn’t think MN is a great guide. Posters in good stable happy relationships don’t usually post. Sometimes if they do they are told they are insensitive

Or, to use the current favourite trite phrase, 'not reading the room' or some such nonsense.

idonotmind · 15/02/2023 18:10

I agree with the OP

Greenfairydust · 15/02/2023 18:35

I must say I totally agree with you OP.

My dating experience has been awful too and have met quite a few of these ''nice guys'' who turn out to be porn-addicted, misogynistic and even downright abusive. I also had an abusive father.

Can women cheat too? absolutely

Are women as likely as men to be the perpetrators of rape/sexual assault and domestic violence? Absolutely not.

Are women as likely as men to become addicted to porn or use sex workers? Again no.

Are women as likely as men to walk out on their kids? nope.

Are women as likely as men to kill their partner? no.

Do we have a toxic feminity problem as a society? no we don't, but we certainly have a toxic masculinity problem.

I think to suggest that dodgy men are an anomaly and that women are just as bad is simply nonsensical.

As long as we keep refusing to accept that there is a serious issue with men's behaviour towards women and girls (it might not be all men but it still is a sizeable number) we will continue to enable male violence and shitty behaviour in relationships.

PegasusReturns · 15/02/2023 18:43

The misdeeds women are guilty of are just incomparable to the awfulness of men

@ancientgran of course I’m not comparing identical crimes and claiming those committed by men are worse Hmm

I’m saying as a class the crimes of women pale into insignificance against those of men.

Im always reminded that official stats say that 1/4 women have been raped or sexually abused, but no one knows a rapist. Do we just have a handful of very prevalent offenders on our hands or are men very good at pulling the wool over peoples eyes?

PartridgeInAChair · 15/02/2023 18:51

IndiaDreamer · 15/02/2023 18:02

My husband would never cheat, what am I supposed to say?

Show quote history

Same here.

There are sone women who have had all the bad experiences can't accept that there are relationships that work. So they have to take the piss out of the woman because she actually trusts her partner.

There are some lovely men.

IndiaDreamer · 15/02/2023 18:53

Thank you @PartridgeInAChair I'm sick to death of reading these type of posts saying you're lying, misguided and I thought the same, my sister, aunt niece all thought the same and every man cheated!

It's bullshit!

And yes I will stand up and say my DH of 36 years is a great life partner.

AdamRyan · 15/02/2023 18:54

Im always reminded that official stats say that 1/4 women have been raped or sexually abused, but no one knows a rapist. Do we just have a handful of very prevalent offenders on our hands or are men very good at pulling the wool over peoples eyes?
25% of women have been raped or sexually abused, but more than 96% or reported rapes don't result in a conviction. Most victims don't even report in the first place.

I'd say that means there are an awful lots of rapists who get away with it and are walking around scot free. It's more likely everyone knows a rapist, but are unaware. Compounded by the fact that calling an innocent man a rapist seems to be a worse crime than actually being a rapist so even if its known a man has been arrested/suspected of rape, people like to err on the side of caution and assume they are innocent.

Yes, rapists and sexual abusers are very good at pulling the wool over people's eyes. Hence why so many people are outraged by threads like these when the statistical evidence is that a lot of men are not very nice at all.

IndiaDreamer · 15/02/2023 18:56

AdamRyan · 15/02/2023 18:54

Im always reminded that official stats say that 1/4 women have been raped or sexually abused, but no one knows a rapist. Do we just have a handful of very prevalent offenders on our hands or are men very good at pulling the wool over peoples eyes?
25% of women have been raped or sexually abused, but more than 96% or reported rapes don't result in a conviction. Most victims don't even report in the first place.

I'd say that means there are an awful lots of rapists who get away with it and are walking around scot free. It's more likely everyone knows a rapist, but are unaware. Compounded by the fact that calling an innocent man a rapist seems to be a worse crime than actually being a rapist so even if its known a man has been arrested/suspected of rape, people like to err on the side of caution and assume they are innocent.

Yes, rapists and sexual abusers are very good at pulling the wool over people's eyes. Hence why so many people are outraged by threads like these when the statistical evidence is that a lot of men are not very nice at all.

But OP said men are awful, no some about it.

Naunet · 15/02/2023 18:57

Oh wow OP, this thread is like catnip to the Poor Menz Crew 🤣

I tend to agree. I know 1 good man who I absolutely trust, but my own father sexually abused me from the age of 3, very hard to trust any men when the one single man in the whole world who is meant to love and protect you, is the man you need protection from. He’s not the only one either, I’ve witnessed and experienced a lot of poor behaviour from men through my life. I don’t tend to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore, and like the man above, they rarely understand the difference between bad behaviour they experience from women, and the bad experience women face from men. Men rarely have to fear for their safety in a relationship.

Satiredandexhausted · 15/02/2023 19:00

Some men are bad and some women are bad yes, but there is a false equivalency that both are equal because whe men are bad they are more likely to resort to abuse and violence.

Women can be awful but rarely are they the ones raping women and using them as punching bags, it happens but is noteworthy when it does because it is so rare.

Even the statistics for DV show interactions and relationships with men are often not without harm. Yes women do these things too, but at markedly much less rates and when men are victims of DV, more than likely it is at the hands of another man.

Not All men, but enough to make us question all men.

What's that saying, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while women are afraid men will kill them. So yes both groups are full of awful people but only one is a threat to the other.

ThreeblackCats · 15/02/2023 19:05

I think it’s a shame that a few bad experiences mean you feel entitled to tar all men with the same brush.

AdamRyan · 15/02/2023 19:11

But OP said men are awful, no some about it.

I think it’s a shame that a few bad experiences mean you feel entitled to tar all men with the same brush.

Given a substantial minority of men are dangerous to women, and given that there is no way to distinguish a dangerous man from a safe one, it's probably safest for women to tar all men with the same brush.

I'd rather be safe and perceived as a man hater than suffer some horrible crime as a result of assuming NAMALT.

IndiaDreamer · 15/02/2023 19:12

Naunet · 15/02/2023 18:57

Oh wow OP, this thread is like catnip to the Poor Menz Crew 🤣

I tend to agree. I know 1 good man who I absolutely trust, but my own father sexually abused me from the age of 3, very hard to trust any men when the one single man in the whole world who is meant to love and protect you, is the man you need protection from. He’s not the only one either, I’ve witnessed and experienced a lot of poor behaviour from men through my life. I don’t tend to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore, and like the man above, they rarely understand the difference between bad behaviour they experience from women, and the bad experience women face from men. Men rarely have to fear for their safety in a relationship.

Classic example at not accepting another point of view!

If you stick up for for DH or DS, you're in the "poor menz" team.

My DH and both my DS are good men, sorry you've not got them in your life but I'm certainly glad they're all in mine!

IndiaDreamer · 15/02/2023 19:13

AdamRyan · 15/02/2023 19:11

But OP said men are awful, no some about it.

I think it’s a shame that a few bad experiences mean you feel entitled to tar all men with the same brush.

Given a substantial minority of men are dangerous to women, and given that there is no way to distinguish a dangerous man from a safe one, it's probably safest for women to tar all men with the same brush.

I'd rather be safe and perceived as a man hater than suffer some horrible crime as a result of assuming NAMALT.

That's your choice, you enjoy life that way, well that's fine.

PartridgeInAChair · 15/02/2023 19:15

Naunet · 15/02/2023 18:57

Oh wow OP, this thread is like catnip to the Poor Menz Crew 🤣

I tend to agree. I know 1 good man who I absolutely trust, but my own father sexually abused me from the age of 3, very hard to trust any men when the one single man in the whole world who is meant to love and protect you, is the man you need protection from. He’s not the only one either, I’ve witnessed and experienced a lot of poor behaviour from men through my life. I don’t tend to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore, and like the man above, they rarely understand the difference between bad behaviour they experience from women, and the bad experience women face from men. Men rarely have to fear for their safety in a relationship.

There you are taking the pisx because some of us are happy with the men in our lives.

So sorry you have been through what you have.

I had the best Btother in the world who died. I have a fab DH. I've just been sat having a drink with two of our male friends. One is an amazing step dad to a down syndrome guy.

I could go on.