....to think men are, sorry, but AWFUL

[TrainteaAnnie]

Straight woman, mid thirties. Have had three 3 year relationships. Everyone one seemed like the 'nice' guy, the kind you can trust..
One caught with porn addiction, one found dm'ing other girls on social media, one outright cheated while drunk on a lads holiday.
I'm dating a lovely man now, but I honestly just had this feeling like... It's inevitable, at some point, he's gonna be like all the rest. I can't trust him although he's not given me reason not to.
And then there's life, every night I come on Mumsnet and read another horror story of some poor married woman, often with young DC completely blindsided by a discovery of infidelity. Or a woman married for 40 years to her best friends finding out he's used prostitutes for their entire marriage.
In the news, Megan Fox being cheated on. That horrid situation with Joe Westerman.
It's everywhere, endlessly. Men driven by their dicks ruining women's lives. Women who trust and love them. It makes me feel ok physically sick thinking about it all. I feel like I never want to talk to this guy I'm dating again even though, maybe 10 years ago, I'd be in love with him. I just emotionally can't do it anymore. Men are awful.

Help!

I m marking my space, must read this thread.

There are lots of good men, same as there are good & bad women. I thank my lucky stars every day for my husband. I'm devoted to him and him to me.

But, if I was single now, I think I'd content myself with that. Online dating, from what I hear, draws in a lot who, shall we say, aren't looking for a relationship of any depth. Or I'd maybe ask friends and colleagues if they know any good, available men.

I do think, if you like this man so far, you should give him a chance.

@WizardOfAus

*How many women do you see with porn addictions?
How many women use prostitutes?
Whats the percentage of men who frequent strip clubs compared to women
*

These three are all fundamentally because women have, on average, far lower sex drives. Therefore the market recognises the huge amount of money there is to be made exploiting this situation, with strip clubs and £100 billion porn industry overwhelming aimed at men (though that is dwarfed by the £500 billion cosmetic industry aimed primarily at women - another gargantuan market responding to differences in biological drives).

Pretending that men are just a naughty/bad version of women isn’t going to solve the more serious issues you mentioned (sexual assault, workplace harassment).

You can't put it on him that other men have been awful - cheats or addicts, etc. Men aren't perfect but how can you go forward with him unless you place your trust in his good behaviour and character?

Have you spoken to him about your experiences with infidelity, your doubts about trust and your hopes for a genuine relationship and to meet someone for longterm happiness and loyalty? Might be a good idea to explore his attitudes and aspirations and make known that these values are important to you and what you are looking for in a man.

I think that the most evil people I have met in life: were women.

Omg 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Women DO NOT need to lower their expectations, men need to stop being arseholes. Don't make this epidemic of sh*t men our problem. Our expectations don't make them cheat, lie and betray us, they choose to do that all by themselves.

Ps. My husband is lovely and definitely not in that category but previous partners have been.

I don't think it is that women have lower sex drives at all.

I think it is that we live in an economy where men see women as objects that exist to please them sexually. Men enjoy this culture

men see women as worth less than them, so they are much more willing to degrade and dehumanise women in many different sexual ways. Eg. Prostitutes, strip bars.

A man said to me once that when he sees a group of women on a night out, he never ever thinks about their personalities, their lives, what they've achieved, their traumas, anything at all that makes them human.

He just sees them as a group of tits and asses.

We need to see that men see us like this. They see us as just for sex.

Even the good ones really aren’t

Seriously @PorpoiseWithPurpose , if you were male you'd be on incel boards with that kind of attitude.

You've written off 50% of the population there. No wonder mumsnet is seen as a man hating site when this misandrist garbage is accepted and cheered on.

Goodchat

No because if they had got a room there would have been no one around to film them having sex and then post it on social media . His wife probably would never have found out . How stupid was he with such a high profile and yes she was as bad too . His mates misses apparently.

I hear you, OP.

In hindsight, the best of my failed long-term relationships was with the man who was tied to his mother's apron strings. He didn't put me first - ever - but at least he wasn't abusive and didn't cheat. The worst was the alcoholic who spent all of my money on booze, hit me, denied hitting me, then cheated on me with a younger woman.

Wow. That's what counts for the least awful? 'At least he wasn't abusive?' I feel sad at my own words.

A few of my close female friends have been assaulted by their exes - a lot of shit has happened behind closed doors. Men have cheated on us. They've betrayed us.

You go online dating, the men don't match their pictures, they can't keep up with you salary-wise and want to sponge off you, and they get angry if you won't immediately have sex with them. They also want you to have their children - I mean, why would you want to procreate with them and saddle yourself to them for life? I bet most of them would then cheat if you weren't ready to have sex two days after giving birth.

It's very, very, very hard not to hate men sometimes. I'm lucky that I have some truly wonderful male friends who are in long-term relationships with lovely women, and I know actually treat them well. If I didn't know them, I'd give up all hope. Instead, I remind myself that some men can be good, decent humans, and are capable of fulfilling relationships.

Perhaps the difference is the good ones settled down quite early on, so didn't have years of having their ideals twisted by porn. Although, that doesn't explain the men who get hitched young and then turn out to be abusive and cheat. I just don't know. What has to happen to stop men from hurting women, and just treat them like equals?

All people can be awful, but within my circle, I only know of men treating their partners despicably. As a straight woman, I think nature is bloody well having a laugh, given men and women are wired so differently.

Men enjoy power over women .
Men enjoy power over women.
Men enjoy abusing women.

As the oppressed gender we talk about how unfair it is. I think it's very unrealistic to think that men would see it the same way as us.

Men enjoy it. Men enjoy the way the world is set up.

The only thing that will change the situation is women.

What I think is actually holding women down: is women not respecting other women.

Women are brutal to other women. Women do not respect, value or appreciate women.

Women not liking each other, keeps women as a whole, weak.

Can you sit down and think what do you value about women.

When women value , support and care about each other, as a gender as a whole we get stronger. And men will not be able to keep us down any longer

This.
Unfortunately...
I mean, Godwin style comparison, but think of communism...ok in theory, but only because based on a completely unrealistic, idealistic idea of human nature.
Ergo - it's more useful to accept reality and work from there (which could mean singledom!)

Now that I'm older, I've learned not to hate the other woman.

When I was younger, I put blame on her shoulders, even though she owed me nothing, and let's face it, how likely is it she knew I existed? We're conditioned to fight amongst each other, when the person who has done us wrong is the male partner who has broken his promises to us.

I try to treat the right person as accountable these days. It's not much, but it's a start.

I value our ability as a sex to be empathetic - so many male leaders are overly aggressive and posture all the time. We're more able to consider a variety of view points and come to a less violent outcome.

I don't see it as inevitable men are bad, just rare that you meet a good man.

Honestly, I’m so glad I’m a lesbian, because men as a group are awful. There are a few truly decent men out there, but imo they are few and far between. Even the men you think are good often hold misogynistic views that are surprising.

My dad recently disclosed that he thinks deep down all women don’t want to work and want to just stay at home and be taken care of by men. He also thinks it’s okay for men to sleep around, but not women, because it’s in a “man’s nature”, but not a woman’s. He’s retired and has fallen down the Ben Shapiro YouTube rabbit hole. My dad has always done 50:50 of the housework and was very hands on childcare, is a gentleman, treats my mum with respect, has been so supportive of my career, so I never would have thought he would hold such views.

My brother recently told me how he thinks his friend who now has a double barrelled name is a “wet blanket” “under the thumb” “not a real man”for taking his wife’s name, apparently a real man would never double barrel his name and he wouldn’t have married my SIL if she didn’t drop her name and take his, again I was totally shocked as was my SIL, his wife.

Found out my FIL, who I previously thought was a very good guy cheated on his ex wife with prostitutes.

My best friend’s husband turned out to be a useless waste of space alcoholic, we all thought he was a lovely guy, he doted on her and would do anything she asked, as soon as their child was born he changed completely and is now emotionally abusive and does absolutely nothing around the house or with their child.

I don’t know if I’ve ever even known a guy that didn’t hold some kind of sexist or misogynistic view and/or wasn’t lazy with housework or childcare, it’s really depressing.

I know so many amazing women now who have decided to stay single because they are fed up with men.

Some are. Some men are total dickheads.

Mine is amazing in every respect though. I'm actually surprised some gorgeous, younger, sexier woman hasn't taken him off me by now but what can I say? He loves me.

That's lovely.

When I met my DH many years ago I was grieving for my much loved younger Brother. I was in a bad place. I had such amazing support from my DH. I class him as my best friend.

I have a lot of close female friends. I wouldn't want to live with any of them. I enjoy spending time with them but I don't miss them like I would my DH.

Fella here. I'm currently single by choice and, frankly, I'm happy to stay that way for the rest of my life as I've had enough of doing my best to be the perfect partner. My previous partner was a covert narcissist and previous partners prior to her had psycho issues too.

This might come as a massive shock to some on here but a lot of women aren't perfect either.

Do I think all women are awful? No, of course I don't. Neither are all men.

Just reading this thread alone you'd think that every bloke on the planet is absolute scum and should be obliterated. 🙄

Now that is a weird response, considering that I wonder have had to have written your post to be able to imply it.

I agree. I have a good one. I have three lovely boys. My therapist and trusted friend both male. But my experiences still tell me that there are many many many men that are awful.

It is worth remembering that according to many (especially those on this thread) on MN misandry doesn't exist.

But some posters will go along way to excuse their sexism.

Ahhhh poor men. Why can’t we just be kind and put them first, eh?

I didn't write anything about putting men first.

But you do you.