I think my boss is scared of me - should I call it out?

[CaponeOnTax]

My boss is very able and experienced but not a massive people person so we’re a small team. We’re each other’s key colleague. What’s bothering me is my boss seems to dread being in a room one-to-one with me. I don’t know if it is weird or AIBU to think it is weird or what.

Around November my boss took me into a meeting room to give me what he thought was a dressing down (closed door). It didn’t go well, I had plenty to say from my side and HR ended up involved. After that, any meetings he instigated were either with the door open or in weird places round the office without doors, so in open plan. A marked change from previous years of working together.

We’re both mainly WFH so it doesn’t come up much and I thought we’d got through it. But again today we had a meeting and he left the door open. The implication seems to be that I am too unpredictable/toxic/not sure what really? to be in a room with. I find it hurtful, unprofessional and odd but … should I say something?

YABU - he can leave the door open if that’s how he prefers it, everyone’s entitled to feel at ease
YANBU - weird and unprofessional, you need to be able to work in a meeting room in your company’s office with the door shut.

I managed a toxic person last year. She used to explode at me, cry and leave meetings when we were alone together. After that I never had another closed door meeting just with her.

Thanks! I do feel this thread is a little weird considering I have actually done nothing but stick up for myself in a difficult meeting. (Was it because I mentioned crying?)

I didn’t call HR, haven’t raised the issue of the door, and - if relevant - otherwise work calmly with resilience. I started this thread because I am wondering if I should raise the issue of the door.

Do most of the posters here not work in places with meeting rooms/confidentiality issues? Door closed is standard professionalism. If nothing other than not to make noise for the people working.

Why are you concerned that the door is open?

Just because it is very abnormal business practice at my work. Our open plan office is quite-ish, the meeting rooms are for meetings.

We have confidential (work) matters to discuss, and occasionally I need to discuss more junior or support staff.

OP: AIBU?
Everyone else: Yes!
OP - Drip feed, stamps foot: No I'm not!

Because if you do have ‘an unprofessional bullying boss’, I would think you’d be leaving the door open yourself, not getting het up about him doing something which is a recognised action for the protection of all concerned.

Also, I don’t get how leaving the door open a crack when having a meeting with someone is ‘othering’ women? I must have missed the point.

Why are people calling the OP aggressive??

If you are discussing confidential matters then the doors needs to be closed regardless of what has happened in the past. Both of you need to be professional.

I occasionally have meetings where I need to discuss staff within the same office as myself and other confidential client meetings, I couldn't have those meetings with the doors open. It's common business practice 101, hello??

He seems to think that keeping the doors open will keep him from getting in trouble again but he wouldn't be getting in any trouble if he was professional to begin with!

Most definitely, I would tell him to close the doors if what we are discussing is confidential and if he acting funny about it then to HR I go. End of.

This is not accurate. My OP says I am undecided. My ‘drip feeds’ are responses to individual posters questions.

The ‘stamps foot’ bit, though - same energy as the poster who accused me of ‘turning on the waterworks’. Difficult woman vibes baked in.

Most people/all women have most certainly not cried at work!

OP, what was the original issue actually about, when he tried to give you a 'dressing down'?

I occasionally have meetings where I need to discuss staff within the same office as myself and other confidential client meetings, I couldn't have those meetings with the doors open. It's common business practice 101, hello??

Exactly @illtakeit - we’re not talking about hot topics, but I don’t want people overhearing eg allocation of work discussions. And Senior Person definitely thought the doors should be shut 100%.

I am really surprised at how few people expect that though - 94% of the respondents here think IABU and should say nothing and leave the door open. I assumed for most places that just isn’t working practice and thought the vote would be more split.

I think having private conversations is a necessity at times. I've had managers who are happy to have conversations about salaries, progression in a communal area if I let them. I always book a room and would expect the door to be closed unless it was quiet and risk of being overheard is small.

It was a technical issue about his view of the competency of an external consultant candidate for a piece of work for a client. (Any further information would be a breach of my duties so I can’t say more. It was specific to my industry). Lots of ‘why didn’t you tell me by email’ ‘I did - sent yesterday’ etc.

I think this is more likely to stem from my crying than the actual subject matter - we have had tough conversations previously but he hasn’t seen me cry before.

OP, take the responses on here with a grain of salt. Unless you are in senior management or understand business practices; specifically confidentiality then you won't understand WHY you're not suppose to have such meetings with the doors wide open.

The people commenting on here are just commenting out of emotions (usually the case in AIBU). It would have been better if you had posted on the employment/career board.

Please don't think your're being unreasonable. I mean imagine talking about work allocation and the staff are hearing everything, does that make sense to anyone?

You’re getting a bit of a pasting on here, OP, and I’m not sure why (other than it’s Mumsnet!). From what you’ve said, it’s abnormal for your industry/office/role to have face to face meetings with the door open (and certainly whenever I’m in the office and have a meeting in a meeting room, I’d always close the door). I’m not quite clear on what you’d hope to achieve by raising it with your boss, though. If you think he’s doing it to make an unnecessary point, then you could raise it — but three months on seems a bit late to me. I’d also worry that it might make things more difficult between you, not less, and I guess it depends whether you’d be okay with that if that happened? Perhaps one way to tackle it would be to wait until you have something particularly confidential or difficult to discuss, then ask if he minds if you shut the door? (Or else conduct very confidential discussions at top volume until he shuts the door!!!)

Don’t ‘call him out’ - just ask mildly on a case by case basis - “shall I shut the door Bob while we discuss Xyz?”

And then as he’s your boss let him take the lead in what he wants to do.

Then if you think he’s put you in a position where there’s an actual confidentiality breach rather than it just ‘feels’ different compared to other colleagues you can decide whether to take it further with HR.

Whatever happened in your November meeting has made him think that you are capable of misunderstanding or lying about his actions. He is covering himself by making sure he is never alone with you, much as teachers avoid being alone with a single pupil in a closed, unobserved room.

I don't know what would happen if you raised it. Would HR support his right to protect himself against a malicious complaint or misunderstanding, or your right to have the door shut (like everyone else). I'm not sure.

Teams calls are different because either one of you could have someone in the room but off-camera, which in itself minimises the risk of malicious complaints.

My best guess is that he's been advised to ensure he is not alone with you to protect himself from any allegations you may make against him.
Unfortunately I think by being assertive with him and 'calling things out' you may have earned a reputation as a potential trouble maker.
Its not uncommon for managers particularly male with female staff to take steps to ensure interactions are within earshot of witnesses.
It is very sad actually as it indicates the trust between you has gone. I don't think there's much you can do, as he has the right to manage the meetings as he chooses. If you request a closed door you may find a 'note taker' is invited in.

He's a bully and made you cry during one of his bollocking sessions.

HR will have instructed him to keep the door open so that any further attempts to bully any member of staff are overheard - it's likely to control and potentially gain independent evidence of his unacceptable behaviour, not say anything about you.

One place I worked at introduced the same policy specifically because there was a spate of creepy/shouty/sweary/unprofessional males recruited by a particular manager (made in his own image) and nobody wanted to be in the position of being stuck in a tiny office with no escape from them or any way of there being witnesses. The potential for somebody to be 'just passing and overheard' or sticking their head around the door without warning made a huge difference, especially for formal disciplinary and dismissal procedures - it took away the need for someone to have to make a complaint and give a statement after being intimidated or sleazed over, as there was an independent person saying 'I witnessed this'.

OP, there are a lot of arsehole comments on this thread. Seems like sensitive information needs to be discussed during your remote meetings, not in the one to one meetings where confidentiality cannot be maintained. As for wanting the door shut, I think this is not unreasonable but if you insist he will escalate further. He obviously knows he crossed a line, and is covering his arse.

I think I’d point to the door when your both sat down and go “is that open for a reason? We are about to move onto the confidential stuff”

So why would you want the door closed?

It's obvious that he's doing this deliberately as a result of the drama in your November meeting. It's not at all clear whether this is because he's scared of you (per your thread title) due to all that "plenty to say" (a phrase I feel does a lot of heavy lifting) - or whether he's the bully who made you cry (per your update) and has been instructed to do this by HR. The two characterisations of him don't add up, but regardless - he's obviously been advised to do this as a means of protecting either you or him.

So I would deal with this on a case-by-case basis. If (and only if) you're dealing with something confidential, request a shut door. Don't "call him out", I don't know whether you intended it as such but using that phrase over something so minor feels like ramping up the drama. Otherwise, accept this as a natural fallout of whatever happened in November.

Because she doesn't want the whole office to see her cry?

Honestly, this is basic shit, how are people not getting it?

If you have an issue at work with your boss which is serious enough to have HR involved then it's understandable that for both of your sakes he might have open door meetings.

Sorry but I don't think this is anything to do with you being a woman, I think it just sounds like standard practice and protecting both of you?

If you have something confidential you need to talk to him about or are worried you might be upset about something, can't you just say that to him and ask for the door to be closed?