To think some people outsource life

[ExistenceOptional]

Some outsourcing of life is fairly normal. Using some childcare, having a weekly cleaner for those who can afford it, dog walkers, etc. But there comes a point where people seem to outsource a lot of life that is not work.

So people who have several nannies so the child is only brought to them for the fun bits of life. Having firms in to decorate your house for Christmas and put up a tree. Having staff to plan, organise and run your child's birthday party with you just showing up to welcome parents and smile as you watch. Having staff to choose and buy your kids Christmas presents.

I used to nanny for families like this and I think you just end up outsourcing life outside of work. Trying to live a personal life like this must be really unfulfilling.

I do ponder this while reading your question but ultimately, the proportion of people in the world who have both the means and desires to outsource life to this extent must be very small, so I don't have much opinion on it.

Saying that, I've had a life long discomfort with the level that childcare was outsourced in the kind of periods and social classes you learn about in history at school, and that has always stayed with me and informed my parenting choices to be fair.

But this is a completely different point to your original post. Your original post and pretty much all subsequent ones made it clear you think outsourcing drudgery is BAD (if it's outsourcing work that's usually done by women - you're okay with work that would otherwise usually be done by men being outsource and you're okay with men outsourcing this sort of work, usually to their wives).

NOW you're saying it's bad if you outsource all the work to one person, treat them badly, underpay them and overwork them. That's a totally different conversation and has NOTHING to do with how fulfilled or NOT fulfilled these women are.

People with money have to do something with their money but usually people will criticize whatever they do with it
usually it’s sending DC to private schools. You can pretty much do anything else with your money (except apparently outsource), without attracting the same criticism as you’ll get for choosing to pay for your children’s education.

Maybe if people didn't need to work so much (both parents) to stay afloat, people wouldn't need to.

As it is, it's hard to fit "life" around the constant need to work, so I can see the appeal to those who can afford it.

Or buy a designer handbag 😉

And my father didn’t even do this. A lot of men outsource parenting to their wives! Or new wife even… (step mum). Sorry I know not all men are like this. YANBU I think you are right, I’d love to outsource more of my life, at the moment the only thing is Tesco delivery. But there comes a point where you outsource so much in terms of children or relationships, that you lose the human bond.

@MsMarch That was a side issue about exploiting people you employ. It was not the purpose of the thread.

What you have written is untrue. I have said some outsourcing is normal. I have also talked about Disney Dads and the impact when dads leave everything to their wife. That is not okay and I have clearly said it. And it is the reason most children are much closer to their mum and their dad i.e. the adult who actually cared for them, rather than just played with them and did the nice bits.

These people literally create jobs, how dare they. Lol

My point is outsourcing the bits you do not want to do just leads to an unfulfilling personal life.

I couldn't agree less, @ExistenceOptional

IME, many men tend to pick and choose what involvement they have with household and child care, while women end up picking up the slack because life is just unpleasant without someone doing that work and no one else will.

My life is arranged so that I do the bits I enjoy and outsource the rest.

I love this and throughly recommend it. I am very grateful that it has been possible for me. Telling yourself that you are missing the 'best bits' just works to keep women tied down.

Why wouldn't you want to do just the bits you enjoy.

Agreed there is a tipping point.

Maybe if people didn't need to work so much (both parents) to stay afloat, people wouldn't need to

I don’t need to work. I choose to work. But if I chose not to work I wouldn’t be swapping it for house drudgery. I’d still have the cleaner, gardener, window cleaner. I might ditch the nanny.

I think you're overgeneralising. DH and I both work long hours (leave at 6:30am, return between 5-7pm) so we have a nanny, she cleans on the days DD goes to nursery. We pretty much outsource everything that we can- why wouldn't I? Why would I want to spend my time doing mundane things like laundry or cooking or cleaning out the bathroom?

Today the nanny made DDs dinner so I could sit on the floor having a dinosaur tea party.

Do I sometimes ask the nanny to watch DD whilst I get my nails done for an hour? Yes. Did she put up and take down my Christmas tree? Yes. (Dd and I decorated it)
Is it my bed DD gets into every night for a cuddle and to wake up with? Still yes. Is it me she goes to when she's sick or falls over? Still yes.

I don't know why you are feeling so superior. Just let people live their own lives.

ooh, the tide is turning OP so you're changing your tune. Now you're talking about exploiting people to do this work. Because yes, that will get everyone riled up, absolutely.

I assure you though that I pay my cleaner a fair wage, and she does a set variety of tasks over a set time. The wonderful party organiser/entertainer who did my DC's last birthday party was paid to set up her activities, provide certain equipment and supplies, entertain my children and their friends for 90 minutes, tidy up the mess that resulted specifically from that activity and then leave.

Just like the bin men are asked to collect rubbish, driving a specialised truck, from outside people's houses.

People choosing to outsource things doesn't mean they're not living a fulfilling life, nor does it mean they're exploring anyone!!!

If i had the money, I'd be all over that. A lot of stuff even stuff that's suppose to be ooh memories, is a pain in the arse chore.

I guess we fall in this category. What you don't seem to understand is that hiring people to deal with some life admin means my husband and I have more time for our children. Are you also advocating that women should stay at home and not work? YABU.

What wrong with someone else organising your child’s birthday party? I would happily do that if I had the money

I would pay a lot (if rich) to outsource this shit.

How is that any different to going to a softplay venue all set up?

If I had the money I'd outsource lots and enjoy life more!

No actually, you haven't. You have vaguely referred to "disney dads" male or female being bad. great. Except you don't seem to understand what disney dad refers to - it's a man who chooses not to do anything except the fun stuff but NOT because he has consciously and specifically made alternative arrangements but because he's just wondered off and really doesn't care if his children's teeth are brushed, they have clean uniform, eat healthily etc or not. He just vaguely assumes someone else will do that.

And I think you said, "a lot of men" but you have been pretty clear, directly and indirectly, that overall, your issue is not with people who just can't be bothered but rather with those who consciously and specifically decide to outsource things (ie women).

If your issue is people who choose to outsource all child rearing and have little to nothing to do with their children, I can appreciate your argument - eg people who choose to send their children to boarding school, never see them etc. But your examples have almost all been rather about choosing to outsource specific admin and other tasks that are mostly specifically the sort of tasks that women have traditionally handled in the home.

Is there REALLY any difference in outsourcing my ironing vs DH choosing to outsource the DIY?

Is there REALLY any difference to outsourcing the party planning for a child's party vs outsourcing, for example, the planning of DH's football team's annual end-of-year booze up.

Is there REALLY any difference to outsourcing my cleaning vs DH choosing to outsource the process of getting the oil changed, filters cleaned on the car or cleaning the gutters?

I always think that there is a lot you can outsource - but you cannot outsource parenting.
yes you can hire nannies, gardeners, cooks and housekeepers, but the parent bit can never be outsourced. Being your child’s moral guide, knowing them inside out, being there for them when they are upset, unwell, feeling bullied at school, the school concerts and assemblies, helping them with homework , guiding them to make good choices in life, being their North Star - their everything - this can never be outsourced. And I agree with OP that some families do not understand this.

Thanks for posting OP, you have just reminded me to do my lottery ticket for tonight!

I also have a couple of friends, mothers, who outsource a lot of their kids needs and they were the ones in lockdown who found it very difficult. Two of my friends harangued the local schools into having their kids even though they were not in the category which should have had a school place.

However they also outsource in a way that is not employing nannies, but constantly having friends or family be there or activities and never one moment with them as a family, and rarely ever one to one with their kids.

I think what has me so riled up is whether your'e willing to admit it or not, you're only complaining about certain types of lifework being necessary for a fulfilling life. And it's so ridiculous. Arguably, a lot of the things everyone outsources as standard genuinely would be fulfilling if we did them ourselves - growing our own food, building things that have specific uses etc.... mopping my kitchen floor is not one I'm particularly concerned about.

I think only a very small minority of people have the funds to live this this - their money their choice I guess

All the things you list are things women (generally) get lumbered with. So, fair play to them I say. If I had the money I'd outsource my boring/stressful tasks.

The difference is you choose presumably with your child the softplay as a party. You choose whether you have food and what kind. You choose how many children to invite and with your child who gets invited and how they are invited. You choose your children's birthday present and cake.
Outsourcing a children's party is saying to a party planner can you organise a party for my 7 year old DD. Nanny will give you details of friends and you can talk to her about themes although I want it to be tasteful.