BIL wants us to pay for their lifestyle

[MsPorridge]

Sorry for my English: not a native speaker. BIL has asked my partner to give them money every month because they "can't cope" with all the expenses.

My partner went to visit his brother and his family last week. I wasn't there. Brother started asking partner how we are coping with cost of living and partner was just honest and said that energy bills are more expensive, etc. but because our expenses have always been so low, we are ok. Brother kept asking questions and partner did not think of any hidden intentions and answered and gave details about our financial situation (they were not very specific but it was just made clear that we were able to save around 2000 per month, except when there is some unexpected cost that month).

For some background: we have no children, no car, no pets, love cooking our own meals, no expensive hobby and maybe we are just very busy to spend money (we spend our time volunteering for different causes, doing exercise, love going on walks which is free...). This is just how we enjoy our life and the saving part just naturally happens. We also own our flat outright because we bought a small one (we could have afforded a much bigger place but not complaining, it was just what we felt we needed) and payed our mortgage quickly. Now we make around 3000 per month combined, so not really a high-income by any means, but it's fine for our situation. Most months we only spend like 1000 and the rest goes to savings/investments. It does help that I've never been interested in make-up or having lots of nice clothes, none of us drink alcohol, etc.

Going back to the problem: his brother started almost crying to him asking if we could give them around 500 per month during an indefinite amount of time to help with the expenses. My partner is a really soft person who always wants to help everyone. I've had a few arguments with him because of this. So he didn't say a straight no and from what he has told me he made it sound like he would talk with me about it and almost like a yes. Apparently the brother said things like "it wouldn't make any difference to you two, right? It seems you are really very comfortable with your life but we are really struggling at the moment". He also mentioned how my partner had to go back to stay with their mum and stayed rent-free for a year (this was 10 years ago and he still seems bitter and about it) as if somehow this justifies what he's asking.

They have 3 children, live in a much nicer and bigger house than us, have 2 expensive cars, 1 dog, 1 cat and 2 rabbits, I see pictures of them dinning out often or going away for the weekend with the whole family, always seem to have new fancy clothes, always redecorating the house, and children have a few expensive hobbies/after-school activities etc. Which I'm happy for them and don't feel any jealousy about but also don't see this is a desperate situation in which they are asking for money to put a meal on the table or pay the mortgage. They just need to adjust. My partner feels very sad for them and thinks it's not fair for the children not to be able to enjoy their life as usual. I feel very very angry that his brother feels entitled to my partner's money just because he has chosen to live a frugal life.

I am really disappointed with my partner for allowing this to happen. Please help. He has agreed with me that is totally unacceptable to ask but does not want to upset him.

Sounds like your partner wants to chuck you under the bus.

I would love to help you but MsPorridge says no, it's all her fault. Blame her not me. I want my relationship with you to be unaffected and would like it if you could direct your resentment towards her instead of me.

Good suggestion.

I would be so pissed off with my husband discussing my finances with his family.

You share your finances, they are private business.

You DP needs to stand firm on this or you will be paying for them forever. @GreenFingersWouldBeHandy how do you know this? Perhaps the brother is just going through a rough patch. Presumably he and his wife are hard working people or they would not have been able to accumulate a nice house and cars.

No way. Why should you bail BIL out? As a one off payment it’d be very generous to help with a lump sum as others have said, if you can afford that but not a set sum every month.

BIL sees you both as cash cows with no DC and a seemingly carefree lifestyle with spare money which is why he’s targeting his DB.

Surely just say no, no explanation required and they will have to adjust to live within their means. Provide the contact details if a financial counselling service to assist them adjust their lifestyle.

No, No, No, No and No.

The brother is a cheeky fucker.

@MsPorridge am I correcting in thinking you come from a culture where supporting family members is the norm?
in which case, it’s not as easy as just turning around and saying no. However that is also a significant amount of money each month.
I think that a compromise is maybe needed, and that your partner should sit down with BIL and go through their finances, finding savings etc, to work out the deficit and exactly how much they need. Then come up with “I will support you with x bill for x number of months”, such as paying for the kids hobbies for the next six months, to give them a breather and work out where, long term, they are going to find the money.

the fact is that if they had a similar lifestyle to you they wouldn't be struggling. they are only struggling because they are making choices to spend on things they can't afford. they need to address their money issues by making better choices. if having cut back on every luxury they were still finding it impossible then it's not unreasonable for them to start asking for handouts but you would have no obligation to agree. you definitely shouldn't be agreeing under the current circumstances

Ok, I thought families were supposed to help each other out, but apparently not!

Tbf, what is readily seen as cheeky fuckery here is seen as rich family members obliged to help out poor family members in other cultures. It isn't considered that disgusting to ask or take. However, since you are all living in the UK then the UK norms would trump the old cultural ones.

I can imagine my BIL asking for money from DH in the future. DH paid off £6k of BIL gambling debt several years ago. BIL/SIL are living way beyond their means with a massive mortgage (£3k/month, very questionable how they obtained it, over half their take home income), 2 fancy cars, exotic holidays etc but no room to save/no-small pension. All about lifestyle with in-laws also helping them. After a tough few years, we are hopeful of making significant money within the next year or so, and I'm just waiting for BIL to ask DH for money like he has in the past. We would have no issue helping if things were dire but it will be a big fat no from me if they expect us to fund their extravagant lifestyle. And it would certainly be a deal breaker if DH seriously considered it. Don't let your DH be manipulated by his brother. Agree with another poster and say you're saving for a house or whatever and can't contribute to indefinite monthly payments! The absolute cheek!!

OP is far from rich though - there's no way they could afford the BIL's lifestyle on their salaries. Saving for the future is wise.

Don't even consider this.

It will start of "to tide them over" and then it will become a long term obligation - especially if you and your DH choose not to have a family yourselves. And whatever you give will never be enough. They will want, and will find ways to justify, more and more.

Let them sell their cars. downsize their house and get their children to choose less expensive hobbies.

What would they do if they didn't have your DH to sponge off? Let them do that, whatever it would be.

His brother was nearly crying - how emotionally manipulative can you get! Tell them to take a running jump!

I know, I absolutely would make the excuse about needing the money somewhere else and not give them a penny. It is going to become more common as people who have bought into the good life for years suddenly feel the financial sting for the first time ever and rather than cut down/adapt, see if they can get away with doing this.

Surely the first thing you do then is stop eating out or going away for weekends. Look into going to one car.

The brother is being massively U of course, how self-entitled and selfish he is. Never let anyone treat you like a cashpoint, no matter how much money you have squirrelled away.

You don't work to fund him, nor are you frugal in order to fund his expensive non-essential lifestyle choices. If he can no longer afford expensive stuff, dining out or children's activities he shouldn't be spending money on those things at least in the short term. And if his finances are in a really bad state no amount you give him will help anyway, it will all just vanish into a black hole of credit card interest or similar. He needs to live within his means, if you give him money he has no reason to learn how to do this and eventually will come asking for more (they always do).

If it was anyone else it would be a flat no and stop asking but because its family, what I would do is give him a lesson in how to economise. Say you are thinking about helping him out but are concerned and taking it seriously and want to see 4 to 6 months of their budgets, accounts and bank statements, to see how difficult a time he is having and how/where you can help. I'd be surprised if he'll share that information, because he knows you can go through the bank statements line by line and tot up where they are splurging, so he'll probably shut up about it. But if he does you can point out how much he is wasting on irrelevant stuff and rather than give him more money to blow on nonsense your partner can offer to help him budget and manage his money instead. Frugality and good money management to get his money working for him can be taught but not with monthly cash handouts. Either way, doing this puts it back onto him and his choices and responsibilities rather than him keep pestering with expectations of you and treating you and your partner like you are being ungenerous or unfair.

@CohenTree Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? They cannot afford their extravagant lifestyle and expect someone else to bail them out, rather than rein it in and take charge of their budget. Read the thread.

I see pictures of them dinning out often or going away for the weekend with the whole family, always seem to have new fancy clothes, always redecorating the house, and children have a few expensive hobbies/after-school activities etc.

THIS is what you need to stress to your DH - YOU choose to live a frugal life. THEY DON'T!! If they are struggling and still having all of those things then they are simply not struggling enough to warrant handouts, especially indefinitely.
You also need to point out that you chose a smaller place than you can afford etc.

They are treating you as if you have gotten lucky, whereas actually you've made choices that have led you where you are, as have they.

Maybe offer to pay for the kids activities for eg a 6 month period to help ease outgoings, any more than that is an actual piss take.

It's NOT just your DH's money, OP! Don't let him railroad you.

Yes you could say that.
The trouble is your partner has set it up so that if he says no it looks like it's all down to you.

My DHs is from a different culture and this has happened to us almost exactly the same apart from we have 1 DC . His mum has gifted the middle child with 3 kids , 5 bed detached house a family car and 2k a month. MIL is retiring and asked us to give them and youngest brother money. They were asking us to fund 40k operation and house deposit for youngest one. DO NOT GIVE ANYMORE MONEY!! They become more and more entitled. It's nearly split our family apart just stop giving money all together. We have had to lie about our finances now which is sad, I've told the family DH has gambled all his money away on a bad business deal to stop the begging..

They are being incredibly cheeky.

It would be more reasonable to offer a one of loan if you were so inclined than a monthly gift (shocking to ask for this) but tbh I don't think he deserves it. He needs to realise how totally unreasonable he's being.

We also got asked to fund deposits and money for larger homes than ours when we still haven't moved to the forever home. When we pointed that out BIL said you can sell your two bed rental property (which will go to DD). The entitlement is astounding absolutely do not gift anymore money , these people expect you to bail them out while they live it up and you haven't even purchased the stuff you want.

As a PP said your DH needs to ask to see their budget, to identify the savings they could almost certainly make. Normally it would be none of his business, but they've just made it so by asking what they did

They'll almost certainly refuse, which should shut it down for now, but really it's a shame your DH told them what you've got spare each month - because with someone like this the £500pm will soon become all of it

As your DH has given your BIL a run down of your expences maybe he should ask his brother for a run down of his and offer to see how they can be reduced
Youre looking at him saving £500/month

He should point out that you don’t spend lots on clothes, meals out and so on because you decided to live as you do and save for your future.

A large house, 2 expensive cars, meals out etc are not affordable if he’s short everymonth.

Work it out, show how he can reduce his expenditure then, as you don’t want to fall out with them, offer them a one off payment ( £1000 for example) to get them by.

As your dh has said he’ll talk to you about it if you don’t help it will be blamed on you.

At the same time you BIL could just keep coming back and asking for more. So he needs to be made aware the money is to help whilst he sorts out his outgoings.

It’s a really tricky situation and maybe your SIL needs to be brought 8th that conversation aswell.

As others have said, your BIL is very unreasonable expecting your partner to help fund his and his family’s lifestyle. I have sympathy for your partner though as his brother has put him in a difficult situation, and regardless of some of the posts on here, it’s not always easy to say no when it’s someone you care about and they’re asking for something you could in theory very easily do. I don’t have any answers, I’m afraid, but can see why you’d be annoyed. Is there any way you could offer a loan, perhaps? That way you could help in the short term but wouldn’t lose out in the longer term…