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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to refuse to go on a business trip to Dubai

313 replies

ElizaDav · 12/02/2023 01:48

I have been asked to provide my expertise on a product development project. Not part of my main responsibilities but an interesting opportunity and cool way to get more exposure in the organisation. Part of it will entail participation in a 4 day meeting with global colleagues on Dubai. Am an out and proud lesbian and definitely not a place I want to go to. Would it look bad if I refuse? Could I suggest they have the meeting in the UK (where we are HQed) or another country? I feel angry that i have been put in a position where i have to choose between career development and travelling to a homophobic and misogynistic country. Our organisation is always going on about diversity inclusion etc yet men making decisions that we should all meet in Dubai just smacks of institutional homophobia and misogyny. Arrghhh...

OP posts:
PeanutButterSmoothie · 13/02/2023 21:24

Puzzledandpissedoff · 13/02/2023 18:36

A searing and highly apposite piece from Forbes, PeanutButterSmoothie

See also this about the person who wrote it: www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-scruton-tapes/

I've just skim read that whilst waiting for my food to be ready and looks very interesting. Will defo read properly.

I was actually on a thread the other day where people were talking about the modern need to put everything in boxes and in some ways I find this applies here too, in that people often take an extremely reductive view of very nuanced topics. Sometimes I feel it's not in good faith as it's very easy just to call somebody a bigot rather than intellectually engage, and it's also sadly an effective tactic as it can often snowball.

I remember a case at Warwick uni a few years back which caught my attention as I live nearby at the time. The guy was called George Lawlor and he was a bit of a pompous twat but was massively piled on in a way which I remember thinking was disproportionate to his actual misdemeanours - this was when I first became aware of cancel culture.

He basically wrote a snarky article in response to being invited to 'I Heart Consent' training, saying he didn't need to be told not to have sex without consent. He said:

"I don’t have to be taught to not be a rapist. That much comes naturally to me, as I am sure it does to the overwhelming majority of people you and I know."

He included a photo of himself holding up a sign reading 'This is not what a rapist looks like'. Now he was defo being a bit needlessly pompous with some of his comments about 'there are real people who need your help', but the way he was hounded out of his lectures was an eye opener for me.

He apparently had people screaming 'rapist' at him on campus and was repeatedly threatened with violence by other men when out at night (they obviously believed he was some kind of sex offender) to the point where he stopped attending lectures.

Yes, he came across like a bit of a self assured knob, and yes he might've foreseen this not ending well, but the guy was far from being an actual rapist. His whole point was that most men understand consent and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm not as invested as him and I think there is defo value in speaking to younger teenagers about coercion/social pressure etc, and not being afraid to say 'no'. But do I believe that students smart enough to get into Warwick University need to be told that you don't shag somebody unless it's clear they're also up for it?

I'm pretty sure it's stating the bleeding obvious and in fact I'm more inclined to think it obfuscates the real problem when we make out that rapists are just confused men who were never told that it's wrong to have sex with unwilling partners. The real problem IMO is deviant men who know what they're doing is wrong and don't care. It's them we need to focus on.

I sometimes feel similarly about male violence and the way many women seem to think that if we remind men enough it'll 'trickle down' and make them suddenly realise that violence is wrong. In reality, it's a hugely complex issue and the average guy isn't the problem. It's not IMO something that can be resolved by telling people "violence is bad, m'kay?"

God, I've gone on a proper rant but cancel culture is something that similarly fascinates and reviles me. Interestingly, me and my brother used to do experiments to see how people would react to us both saying the same thing. Invariably, I always seemed to be able to get away with much more as a woman. He'd put forwards arguments I'd previously expressed and people would react with much more hostility most times.

TheGreyZebra · 27/02/2024 14:42

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Bansheed · 27/02/2024 18:43

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Really? That is your take away from a woman who details that she has been both raped in the UK and sexually assaulted in Dubai. You need to sort your head out

Aintbaint · 27/02/2024 19:40

I declined to go for the same reasons as you. Work was completely understanding. The meeting actually got moved to a European country, the Dubai based colleagues came there instead as another presenter was a gay man, and he didn’t want to go either.
A couple of U.K. colleague were pissed at us though, always wanted to go to Dubai apparently…

Aintbaint · 27/02/2024 19:42

You don’t have to go anywhere where you feel your safety might be
compromised , or where you feel you wouldn’t be able to be yourself.
I wouldn’t go to places like Jamaica for the same reason. There so many places I. The world I can safely go to, why would I waste my time and money on visiting homophobic ones.

laclochette · 27/02/2024 21:56

I've refused to work on projects for Emerati-state owned businesses and to travel to the area for work based on principle regarding LGBTQ rights. I was fortunate that my work allows people to take moral stands on things be it alcohol, gambling-related projects etc. (We have a v wide client base.) It isn't a given that this would be happily accepted in every workplace although I hope it would be!

Fancylike · 28/02/2024 14:26

laclochette · 27/02/2024 21:56

I've refused to work on projects for Emerati-state owned businesses and to travel to the area for work based on principle regarding LGBTQ rights. I was fortunate that my work allows people to take moral stands on things be it alcohol, gambling-related projects etc. (We have a v wide client base.) It isn't a given that this would be happily accepted in every workplace although I hope it would be!

Do you know any gay people living in the UAE? I do - locals and expats alike. Your concern is extremely misplaced.

TheGreyZebra · 28/02/2024 14:58

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BobbyBiscuits · 28/02/2024 15:19

I wouldn't want to go. Simply as I'd be worried my normal behaviour in hot weather (wearing shorts, skirts, vests) would be illegal. That and I like drinking alcohol and talking to people of both sexes on an equal footing.
Of course I respect muslim culture but I don't think Dubai is a very 'cultural' place. Unless you think money is cultured.

Fancylike · 28/02/2024 21:12

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Ah. Not shocked that an Islamaphobic racist bigot is stalking posters through unrelated posts.

TheGreyZebra · 28/02/2024 21:25

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Fancylike · 28/02/2024 21:35

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qunari · 28/02/2024 22:30

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Everyone who supports the existence of the state of Israel is unhinged? Really?

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