to refuse to go on a business trip to Dubai

[ElizaDav]

I have been asked to provide my expertise on a product development project. Not part of my main responsibilities but an interesting opportunity and cool way to get more exposure in the organisation. Part of it will entail participation in a 4 day meeting with global colleagues on Dubai. Am an out and proud lesbian and definitely not a place I want to go to. Would it look bad if I refuse? Could I suggest they have the meeting in the UK (where we are HQed) or another country? I feel angry that i have been put in a position where i have to choose between career development and travelling to a homophobic and misogynistic country. Our organisation is always going on about diversity inclusion etc yet men making decisions that we should all meet in Dubai just smacks of institutional homophobia and misogyny. Arrghhh...

Ask why, as a supposedly inclusive company, they have chosen a place that is the reverse of their ethos, and that effectively excludes you

This is what I'd do, though in a workplace situation I'd keep it to the principle rather than the personal

FWIW I detest Dubai, but it's unlikely to be a problem unless "out and proud" means constantly emphasising your sexuality, and I'd question whether that's appropriate for anyone at work, no matter what their orientation

@PeanutButterSmoothie - well I take your point. I am not thrilled by those figures, and homophobic Brits can get stuffed. Fortunately I'm in a more powerful position in the UK to make that clear than I would be in Dubai....

Apologies if it came across as whataboutery.

I'm always just a little perplexed by how so many people are outspoken against homophobia but seem to think it's solely the reserve of other countries and the 'straight white male' boogeyman.

I speculate that it's because a lot of people who are most vocal about it think in terms of privilege/identity politics. The 'white people can't experience racism' / 'men can't experience sexism' type of beliefs.

So it's a bit confounding to them that somebody could be part of an oppressed group but also an oppressor of other groups. Personally, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive at all. But I digress.

Possibly they are including the people for whom travel to white, liberal countries is a nightmare.

@PeanutButterSmoothie - it's called the hierarchy of rights problem and is a particular issue in diverse societies. So I found what you said very interesting!

the Islamophobia proudly displayed is so disappointing. Most countries that follow Islam have laws against homosexuality because the religion forbids it.

@Noname99

It's not Islamophobic to not want to visit a place where homosexuality is illegal! JFC!

Could someone say a little about for whom travelling to white liberal countries is a nightmare? I get that bringing international colleagues to UK can be very expensive - but who is excluded and why?

I've not heard of that phrase before. I shall have to do some reading.

I'm a 44 year old straight woman and if my work wanted to send me to Dubai I'd refuse!

the Islamophobia proudly displayed is so disappointing. Most countries that follow Islam have laws against homosexuality because the religion forbids it.

Well, it does kind of sound like the religion is part the problem. I'm not sure it's so much Islamophobia as homophobia-phobia.

It's an interesting question whether the various statutes like the Equalities Act which protect religious beliefs also extend to protecting elements of those religious beliefs which infringe on other protected characteristics.

Certainly, people are hesitant to challenge things like sexism and homophobia when the driving force behind them is religion.

I’m a 57 year old straight woman and I wouldn’t go to Dubai. It’s built on slavery. People died building it. If being bothered by that makes me a snowflake then I’m proud to be a snowflake.

I've always wondered what happens in the case of a niqab wearing employee dealing with a deaf male customer who needs to lip read, if there's no one else who can serve the customer (e.g. a pharmacist working alone). Each has perfectly valid but mutually incompatible rights. Looked it up and never could find a clear answer tbh.

As a queer woman I have a very live and let live attitude towards other people's religions.

Unfortunately the UAE very much has a lock 'em up attitude towards people like me. There's nothing Islamophobic about pointing out the UAE's homophobic laws.

@PeanutButterSmoothie - yes it is and it is not just that statute. There are lots of these little hierarchies operating in the law, even though the universal rights which are cited in support of these changes are stated to apply to all.

In relatively homogeneous societies this seems to work fairly well, but in diverse societies, the universality of rights seems to be, well, much more complex. Some rights are more universal than others.

I was at uni with someone who wore niqab, she was training to be a BSL/English interpreter so I asked, she just flipped up the from and said, "like this".

I think a niqab wearing pharmacist wouldn't be working alone as she wouldn't want to potentially be alone with a man.

Agree. I have a gay male friend that has been living in the Middle East, including Saudi, for several years now (and dating more than me in Ireland!) without any issue. Unless you are planning on snogging another woman in public you will be fine. If it’s the principle well clearly you are working for a firm that does business in Dubai which contributes towards paying your wages. I do understand your point but refusing to go to Dubai when you are working for a company doing business there seems performative.

It’s built on slavery. People died building it.

As are many countries, including western ones.

One of the most obvious is that our visa system makes it very difficult for people from some countries to visit. So a meeting in the UK might have limited attendance if invitees are from a diverse range of places.

I think penalizing someone who was gay for refusing to go to a country where they were automatically criminal, even if a foreign business person being arrested for the crime was unheard of, would be unreasonable fo the company and potentially discriminatory.

I’ve already given examples earlier of how common discussions with business colleagues - that most people engage in without blinking an eye - can display our sexuality. Unless OP is constantly conscious of trying to hide it, she would most likely tell people she’s a lesbian one way or another. Just as I would probably tell people I was straight.

So yes, I am saying that any lesbian or gay man should be able to refuse to go to Dubai, or any other country that criminalizes homosexuality, without penalty.

But what I’m mainly saying is that a company that claims to be inclusive should be open to OP saying she won't go. As others have said, there are reasons that the UK might be discriminatory for some, reasons why Dubai might for others. A company that actually means it when it says it is inclusive should have a policy in place to consciously consider the impact on diverse employees of the location of meetings.

I work and live in Dubai with many homosexual friends who are married/living together and have been here for years. I think for a important work trip you could visit without any issue and just stay in your hotel if you really wanted to.

YANBU I would call out my boss and say 'for an organisation that claims to be inclusive, going to Dubai is a massive misstep' and that I 'do not feel safe', 'as both a lesbian and a woman going to Dubai'. Put your feet down on this, if you get trouble for it go to HR or your union rep, or both.

With the advent of the internet, skype and zoom, there shouldn't even be any need to hold regional meetings in Dubai or anywhere. It's not even necessary anymore to travel for meetings.

I've read some brainless things on here before but I think you take the prize

Really, I’m yet to meet anyone who is worried about calling out homophobia. What excuse do they give for ignoring non-muslim peadophile rings? Or are we okay with non-muslims doing it?

This. You will probably be working not only with Emiratis (tiny percentage of the population) but with people who will be unable to travel to EU/UK without lengthy visa approvals.

Not very inclusive, tbh. I dislike this kind of Western attitude. There won’t be many places outside of white western countries that you can travel to or do business with if you expect them to think and act like you do.

When did tolerance for different cultures drop off? This is not far off from missionaries wanting to covert locals, this time into current western cultural standards rather than Christianity.

The above isn’t a defence of their system btw, just describing the situation as is. I don’t like that gay people can’t live normally, but you have to accept that it’s their way.