To worry about how right wing...

[TooBigForMyBoots]

...the UK is becoming? The scenes in Liverpool were shocking and I fear this is just the beginning.

Maybe clamp down on global corporations like Google, Amazon, FB, etc?

Public money shouldn't be used to back up failed businesses, EU companies seem to do ok.. look where BionTech and mRNA vaccines came from or Siemens, VW, ... Europe seemed to keep the majority of its car industries... the UK's biggest problem is it allows our very best companies to be sold to anyone, even the Chinese.

Its global action that will clamp down on how big corps avoid tax, the UK, even if it tried, just isn't big enough... the inequality figures i quoted aren't caused by amazon etc but extremely wealthy individuals.

Its global action that will clamp down on how big corps avoid tax, the UK, even if it tried, just isn't big enough

'Global' for this purpose will not happen, and you know it. 'Global' is dominated by these players and they will never willingly change the status quo. So it needs to be done at a national level

... the inequality figures i quoted aren't caused by amazon etc but extremely wealthy individuals

They are not mutually exclusive. Both can be tackled

UK's biggest problem is it allows our very best companies to be sold to anyone, even the Chinese

True, so it needs to be addressed. Also property and land.

But it's not a right wing/left wing issue, it just needs to be tackled by a strong, patriotic statesman. Also belonging to a block with rigid rules (like the EU) and unelected leaders would curtail UK's ability to manoeuvre

"Whilst some on the left did, almost all the right wing supported Brexit, look at the political views of the ERG or the Eurosceptic parties in the EU....all right wing."
The Tories supported remain. As did all the major banks, the CBI, and most of the business world.

Corps will just move around, look at ROI and its (previously) very low CT rate, its global action that has raised the min to 15%... which is too low but at least a start, so things can change..

We need global action to stop companies declaring profits in the lowest tax regime possible.

But where the UK could act is on tax havens and money laundering, despite its talk we still have done little on either.

What? it was a free vote, the tory party had no stated view.... are you a history revisionist?

.. i did say this would happen on another thread, Tories will try and distance themselves from Brexit and blame it all on Labour... well done :(

..and major banks, CBI and business are not political entities, they act on profit and whats good for business & generally speaking, whats good for business is usually good for the rest of us, given good regulation and taxes.

The ERG is on the far right of UK politics.

Hard times and a recession/depression cause anxiety. Increasing bills, job insecurity, high wage demands due to cost of living all cause anxiety. 24/7 news with earthquake, war and reports of international tension will, unless seen in perspective increase anxiety. This will breed resentment and that will be feed by those who want to profit from it.

It could be anti immigrant/asylum seeker/ refugee groups.
It could be those who want to encourage unrest in racial minorities.
It could be those who wish to dishearten women.
It could be those who want to cause rage in people who dispute their gender.
It could be those who want to create fear, because fear allows people to be controlled ....

And you're seriously trying to tell a Northern Ireland native the actual realities of the Provos?

Amazing(!)

I notice there is no proper response to the security assessments as accepted by the governments of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

That alone speaks volumes.

The Wikipedia page you quoted is generally correct. But the quoted part doesn't claim the PIRA itself disappeared.

Does Wikipedia trump the security assessments as carried out by PSNI, MI5 and An Gardai Siochana?

Not on your nelly.

The GFA is post-negotiations and your comment demonstrates your own lack of understanding as to what the Belfast Agreement actually is. It's a hysterical point.

The so-called "Chuckle Brothers" act isn't all that surprising as McGuinness and Paisley had highly similar views. They just differed on the constitutional question.

But it is a fact that PSF/PIRA and the UDA absolutely collaborated together. Not only did they agree to not murder each others' terrorists (a fact borne out by the statistics), but they also worked together to attack the security forces since the success rate against terrorism was an astounding 85% at preventing attacks by them.

And the fact terrorists were 98% more likely to be arrested than shot dead by the Security Forces. This drops slightly to 96% when we factor in the involvement of the SAS against them.

Try as you might, but you cannot divorce Irish Republican terrorism from their very clear left wing politics. The UVF was also a politically left leaning organisation as their political party still remains the Progressive Unionist Party (PUP). The UDA, on the other hand, remains right wing.

PSF/PIRA, INLA, OIRA and even the more recent CIRA, RIRA and NIRA are all left wingers in political terms. NIRAs political wing is Saoradh and it is they who murdered Lyra McKee.

For decades, the most dangerous terrorist organisation in the world was a left wing one. The Provos - Provisional Army Council, Provisional IRA and Provisional Sinn Féin.

The security assessments is in zero doubt that PSF and PIRA are one and the same thing. It also states they still have access to weapons. Even De Chastilain had to admit years after decommissioning they hadn't got rid of all weapons.

To this day, PSF/PIRA cover up various post-GFA murders such as that of Quinn and even sexual abuse such as that of Mairia Cahill (her book is out soon).

I think you're far too used to a GB conception of left wingers to be able to acknowledge PSF/PIRA and others are both left wing AND terrorists. It's called cognitive dissonance when faced with the facts.

I think you're far too used to a GB conception of left wingers to be able to acknowledge PSF/PIRA and others are both left wing AND terrorists. It's called cognitive dissonance when faced with the facts

Not at all, quite happy to learn from your experiences and knowledge but nothing i ve read (so far) indicates the IRA are genuinely politically motivated, they use politics as a weapon to further their aims, which is what that Wiki page said as well....

Aside what i found with you is your extremely aggressive, there is no debate with you at all "My way or the Highway" so if your typical of a NI resident, its no wonder that place is/was driven by factionalism.

Ah, so you have chosen to go down the route of Ad Hominem nonsense which is an admission of losing the argument. Oh dear.

As for the PIRA, their main objective was the establishment of a sovereign 32 County SOCIALIST Irish Republic. This is a left wing concept and political objective. Like their predecessors, PIRA believed they could achieve this through murder - the "might is right" fundamentalist attitude. Reconciliation of the people was NOT the aim of Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA, in fact. The socialist Republic as declared in the 1916 declaration was. They didn't think everyone had to be on board with it and chose to hysterically blame the British Government for everything, including their own atrocities as the eloquent John Hume once said.

Provisional Sinn Féin was the party they sent their political message out with, often highly manipulative. And PIRA was the wing that was to bring that political demand to reality through murder, in their eyes.

Controlling all of this in a two horse manner, is the third horse - the Provisional Army Council. This was made up of both armed militants such as McStiofain and Cahill and political left wing militants such as Adams and McGuinness.

Provisional Sinn Féin, Provisional IRA and The Provisional Army Council were serious about their armalite and the ballot box strategy. If they were not, they'd have been crushed in the early 1970s.

Everyone uses politics to further their aims, but not every party uses political violence with which to achieve their purported aims.

You clearly have difficulty accepting that the Provos were left wing terrorists which is why you tried to change the goalposts to "nothing i ve read (so far) indicates the IRA are genuinely politically motivated".

Yet the reality is the Provos would have been crushed long ago if they weren't deadly serious about their politics as well as their violence.

To choose to believe otherwise is naive in the extreme.

You do understand that PSF/PIRA being left wing terrorists doesn't mean being left wing itself is problematic....right?

The same holds true for right wing politics.

To use an example of a different left winger from Corbyn....John McDonnell is both a left wing politician AND a clear sympathiser of Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA.

Point is, left wingers aren't excluded from acts of terrorism OR from sympathising with them. (Same applies to the right and terrorism).

However much you might struggle with the very concept.....

I agree that Sinn Fein are socialist.

But by emphasising this you are underplaying the political leanings of the loyalists and NI's other political parties. Some of whom take their seats in Westminster and are power brokers.

On the contrary, it is much more readily accepted that terrorist groups are politically to the right.

But a lot of people struggle with the reality of terrorist groups also being politically to the left.

People have to understand that violence can also be carried out by the left. Not just the right. In refusing to accept and acknowledge this reality, those who deny are also helping to increase polarisation of society.

When society becomes polarised, violence is more likely to occur. From both left and right wingers.

The horseshoe theory holds. It is precisely why the SDLP's John Hume (co-winner of the Nobel Peace Prize with the UPP's David Trimble) asserted that Loyalism and Republicanism are mirror images of each other. They're violent with political ideology underpinning it.

Likewise, Constitutional Nationalism and Constitutional Unionism are also mirror images. They believe in politics only and not in violence. This is the grouping I'm in, BTW.

Hume was spot on.

Those who attempt to deny left wing terrorist are part of the polarisation problem for it takes two to create diametrically opposites.

The police tasked with monitoring extremist groups know this. The Prevent programme also talks about this.
Police have arrested and put in prison people from the extreme left involved in climate activism for example. The idea this is not acknowledged does not stand up to scrutiny.

But most extremist violent left groups were active in the 1970s, but do not exist any more. Groups like the Weathermen. These days it is extremist right wing groups who are violent towards individuals, and left wing ones who are violent towards property.

Deep Green Resistance for example are flagged as an extreme left wing group.

Some of the Tory PMs have been dripping wet liberals. It was May's government who wanted self-ID, May also (as Home Secretary) made it almost impossible to conduct a search (so much for the party of law and order).

Quite a lot of the current craziness came from the coalition in any case, Lynne Featherstone was the responsible minister for much batshittery.

@DownNative Like i said, you re aggressive in how you make your points... which makes me just skim through what you say, its just ranting and insults.

The IRA may well hide behind the banner of socialism but they aren't genuine, they are criminals and murderers as are the loyalist groupings.

Hitler called is party socialist too, no more socialist than Pepper the Pig.

Like i said, you go and edit that page.. if you re so sure your correct and see how long it lasts?

TBF the coalition was 8 years ago and changes to the GRA were dropped... Cameron liked the idea of being "nice and progressive" but his party isn't e.g Lee Anderson or John Redwood or Steve Baker or Pritti Patel... some tory MPs have appalling views.

Stop n search laws were changed because they didn't work, they pee'd off innocent people and damaged relations with the Police, bloody hell they even stopped a GB athlete with her baby because she was in a nice car.... and thats AFTER the law was changed...

We had several black technicians working in london and they were always disproportionately stopped compared to white technicians.. i mean a black guy in a nice new car must have stolen it!!!
(actually i don't think a white tech was ever stopped)

The far right have been relatively discreet for many years, until emboldened by the Brexit vote.

I'm old and can remember the 1970s, when the National Front were allowed to march through deprived and ethnically mixed areas spreading their hate, racist graffiti was everywhere and some estates were no-go areas for BAME people. Racist graffiti and racially motivated crime was not at all uncommon.

One of the founder members of the NF owned a house near where I lived in Croydon, and it became the "Nationalist Bookshop", peddling its hate-filled message, but only open by appointment. A group of their supporters pulled a young black student off his moped and murdered him, but back then the "hate crime" wasn't used. The premises were still in use by the far right into the early/mid 1980s. The police raided it looking for someone who'd hidden there following a fight outside a local pub, and found it was being used as a safe house for 2 members of an Italian fascist group who were wanted in Italy.

Naively, I thought we'd seen the last of this shit, but like the poor, the far-right seem to be with us always.

If stop and search doesn't work, then why did London become much more stabby after searches reduced?

As I recall, that car was seen driving erratically. Personally I think that it would be negligent for an officer not to challenge any car being driven erratically, keeping the public safe should come above worries about hurt feelings.

On a later occasion, her partner was asked to pull over because officers had a reasonable suspicion that a phone was being used at the wheel. He then failed to stop. I'm not feeling a lot of sympathy.

The solution is quite simple. Identify the most affluent and lowest crime neighbourhoods in the UK and bus those who require housing and welfare into those communities. They are wealthier and better equipped to care for people these hard working, honest and decent young men with temporary housing and employment issues.

I rather like this idea. I live in an affluent and low crime area. It also has a very active group of people who founded an organisation that supports refugees and asylum seekers. We even have a run-down and struggling hotel in the town centre, which would be ideal for an asylum seeker hostel.

It'll never happen though, for two reasons. It's in a Tory/LD marginal constituency and the government won't want to risk alienating their supporters here and losing the seat. And property values are high, so if the hotel goes under financially, it's bound to be sold and converted into flats that will sell for well over £300k a piece. It's already happened to the other hotel here that went out of business.

What's an AH, please?

The police have apologised for their actions towards the motorists. Not sure why you are making up excuses when they have apologised .

Talks of bussing people remind me of DeSantis and Martha’s Vineyard