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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To worry about how right wing...

656 replies

TooBigForMyBoots · 11/02/2023 20:38

...the UK is becoming? The scenes in Liverpool were shocking and I fear this is just the beginning.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
ConcordeOoter · 13/02/2023 17:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ConcordeOoter · 13/02/2023 17:37

Should say "Who is or has a loved one"

smileladiesplease · 13/02/2023 18:45

'Now we have mobs !'

Yep never had riots in the uk before brexit

Bangs head on the table ye gods the innocence or plain draft

smileladiesplease · 13/02/2023 18:51

Ahh the hope not hate mob!

Unless you are jewish of course

Piggywaspushed · 13/02/2023 18:56

www.jewishnews.co.uk/patriotic-alternative-hnh-report/

Here's Jewish News, warning about Patriotic Alternative. Using information from HNH.

smooththecat · 13/02/2023 18:58

Lordamighty · 11/02/2023 20:49

If you think people in Liverpool are right wing you are deluded. Knowsley is one of the safest Labour seats in the country.

The sheer straw man of it! FFS.

Euchariahere · 13/02/2023 18:59

It's a natural reaction to the lefty craziness we are living through currently

Clavinova · 13/02/2023 19:12

Alexandra2001
The IRA were/are a nationalist terrorist organisation, willing to do deals to further their aims, left and right wing terror groups don't do this.

Gerry Adams wrote: Signposts to Independence and Socialism (1988)

And this splinter group were clearly left-wing;

The Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) is an Irish republican socialist paramilitary group...
The group seeks to remove Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom and create a socialist republic encompassing all of Ireland.
The INLA was founded by former members of the Official Irish Republican Army who opposed that group's ceasefire...
High-profile attacks carried out by the INLA include ... the 1994 Shankill Road killings and the assassinations of Airey Neave in 1979...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_National_Liberation_Army#:~:text=The%20Irish%20National%20Liberation%20Army,known%20as%20%22the%20Troubles%22

There have been no left wing terror attacks in the U.K.

See above.

Clavinova · 13/02/2023 19:23

Bojo knew very well Turkey would never join the EU, it would be vetoed

Veoted by whom?

www.gov.uk/government/news/minister-for-europe-renews-uk-commitment-to-eu-enlargement

DownNative · 13/02/2023 19:38

Alexandra2001 · 13/02/2023 16:16

@Clavinova

The majority of left-wing terrorist groups originated in the aftermath of World War II and were predominantly active during the Cold War.[1] Most left-wing terrorist groups that had operated in the 1970s and 1980s disappeared by the mid-1990s. One exception was the Greek Revolutionary Organization 17 November (17N), which lasted until 2002. Since then, left-wing terrorism has been relatively minor in the Western world in comparison with other forms of terrorism,[1] and is now mostly carried out by insurgent groups in the developing world.[4]

The IRA were/are a nationalist terrorist organisation, willing to do deals to further their aims, left and right wing terror groups don't do this.

Incorrect.

The Provisional I.R.A and Provisional Sinn Féin are one and the same thing. Indeed, intelligence reports from MI5, PSNI and Gardai all state that they are controlled by the Provisional Army Council. And, believe it or not, still have access to weapons. This security assessment still holds in 2023 and accepted by both sovereign Governments too.

PSF's armed wing, PIRA is more accurately described as dormant. Not dead, disappeared or left the stage.

PIRA, like PSF, is very much a left wing terrorist organisation. From their formation up to the early 1990s, PSF/PIRA absolutely refused to do any deals with either the British or Irish Governments.

What changed in the 1990s was Thatcher's deployment of the SAS in 1987 where PIRA came off worse each time plus Special Branch successfully foiling terrorist plots by both PIRA and the UDA weakened them hugely. Terrorists were more likely to be arrested, put on trial and imprisoned than they were to be shot dead. In short, Thatcher's whole of government and criminalising PIRA had realised its aims by the time Major took office.

In military terms, PIRA was defeated by the Security Forces and they could now be pushed towards politics in the form of PSF. This is exactly what the authorities had done to the Official IRA and the Workers Party by 1973. It just took longer to do the same to PSF/PIRA.

"We were saying the armed struggle’s failed, it can’t win. The jails are filling up, people are dying left, right and centre and the British are getting the better hand on us.

Obviously we knew in our hearts that we were deeply, deeply infiltrated at a very high level.

The armed struggle had to stop. We’d dump weapons, call the ceasefire, and then go into talks."

- Frankie Quinn, senior member of the PIRA's East Tyrone brigade, one of the deadliest of PIRAs cells.

I've quite a number of such admissions from multiple PIRA terrorists who admitted the same in 2003. You might be interested in Rogelio Alonso's book, IRA And Armed Struggle. Excellent book that deconstructs how PSF/PIRA worked, the myths they told to justify their murders and why they finally accepted the Belfast Agreement when they'd previously helped destroy Sunningdale of 1973 and the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985.

All terrorist organisations make deals at the point when they're facing defeat as Michael Collins' own IRA was or when they're militarily defeated as PSF/PIRA was (failed to take power with the Armalite on one hand and the ballot box in the other). Irrespective of whether they are right or left wing terrorist groups.

There is no peace process without the security forces and it is only possible once terrorists are so weak they cannot fight on or are defeated. The reason for that is terrorist organisations have a fundamentalist attitude

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2023 19:45

CasperGutman · 13/02/2023 15:18

A hotel near me is used for housing asylum seekers. I only know because of a few posts on local social media groups collecting unwanted winter clothing etc. to donate to them. There has been no protest or other backlash against their presence at all, to the best of my knowledge.

Glad to say my bit of the UK is clearly moving healthily to the left! :-)

Same here @CasperGutman.Smile The last thing anyone needs is a violent right wing mob wrecking what is already a deprived area.

OP posts:
Greentree1 · 13/02/2023 19:45

Hey we were talking about refugees in Liverpool. I understand thread drift but really?

Greentree1 · 13/02/2023 19:48

DownNative · 13/02/2023 19:38

Incorrect.

The Provisional I.R.A and Provisional Sinn Féin are one and the same thing. Indeed, intelligence reports from MI5, PSNI and Gardai all state that they are controlled by the Provisional Army Council. And, believe it or not, still have access to weapons. This security assessment still holds in 2023 and accepted by both sovereign Governments too.

PSF's armed wing, PIRA is more accurately described as dormant. Not dead, disappeared or left the stage.

PIRA, like PSF, is very much a left wing terrorist organisation. From their formation up to the early 1990s, PSF/PIRA absolutely refused to do any deals with either the British or Irish Governments.

What changed in the 1990s was Thatcher's deployment of the SAS in 1987 where PIRA came off worse each time plus Special Branch successfully foiling terrorist plots by both PIRA and the UDA weakened them hugely. Terrorists were more likely to be arrested, put on trial and imprisoned than they were to be shot dead. In short, Thatcher's whole of government and criminalising PIRA had realised its aims by the time Major took office.

In military terms, PIRA was defeated by the Security Forces and they could now be pushed towards politics in the form of PSF. This is exactly what the authorities had done to the Official IRA and the Workers Party by 1973. It just took longer to do the same to PSF/PIRA.

"We were saying the armed struggle’s failed, it can’t win. The jails are filling up, people are dying left, right and centre and the British are getting the better hand on us.

Obviously we knew in our hearts that we were deeply, deeply infiltrated at a very high level.

The armed struggle had to stop. We’d dump weapons, call the ceasefire, and then go into talks."

- Frankie Quinn, senior member of the PIRA's East Tyrone brigade, one of the deadliest of PIRAs cells.

I've quite a number of such admissions from multiple PIRA terrorists who admitted the same in 2003. You might be interested in Rogelio Alonso's book, IRA And Armed Struggle. Excellent book that deconstructs how PSF/PIRA worked, the myths they told to justify their murders and why they finally accepted the Belfast Agreement when they'd previously helped destroy Sunningdale of 1973 and the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985.

All terrorist organisations make deals at the point when they're facing defeat as Michael Collins' own IRA was or when they're militarily defeated as PSF/PIRA was (failed to take power with the Armalite on one hand and the ballot box in the other). Irrespective of whether they are right or left wing terrorist groups.

There is no peace process without the security forces and it is only possible once terrorists are so weak they cannot fight on or are defeated. The reason for that is terrorist organisations have a fundamentalist attitude

The IRA are dead long live the IRA apparently.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2023 19:48

smileladiesplease · 13/02/2023 18:51

Ahh the hope not hate mob!

Unless you are jewish of course

The frightening rise in antisemitism is another indicator of the shift to the right. Our Jewish population shouldn't have to have security in their schools. They didn't when I was young.

OP posts:
DownNative · 13/02/2023 19:52

Greentree1 · 13/02/2023 19:48

The IRA are dead long live the IRA apparently.

If you prefer to believe fairytales.

Meanwhile, the security assessments as accepted by the British and Irish Governments tells us they (and all the others) are still armed.

In other words, PIRA is dormant....for now.

Dormant = "temporarily inactive or inoperative."

C4tastrophe · 13/02/2023 20:03

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2023 19:48

The frightening rise in antisemitism is another indicator of the shift to the right. Our Jewish population shouldn't have to have security in their schools. They didn't when I was young.

I’m in Switzerland, very safe country.
The local synagogue / primary school has guards as well as anti-vehicle barriers.

Piggywaspushed · 13/02/2023 20:03

And also other paramilitary organisations. Not only the IRA.

ElliF · 13/02/2023 20:08

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2023 19:48

The frightening rise in antisemitism is another indicator of the shift to the right. Our Jewish population shouldn't have to have security in their schools. They didn't when I was young.

A lot of schools have Police allocated to them. Some employ their own security. It applies across the board, and last time it was the a party advocating for nationalism and socialism if I recall, and they decimated a continent for a generation.

Disenfranchising people in this country and pushing them hard into poverty is not left or right wing. You can’t point at whoever occupies the top seat and say, see, it’s his fault. The economy and everyone in the country were heading for poverty no matter what happened because we bankrupted out country in 2008, dropped interest rates to zero and went on a 15 year bender of infinite money spending. Two successive governments decimated this country, and pretending the county wasn’t bankrupted by the labour administration and this was done by the conservative administration is either complete ignorance of provable fact, or disingenuous. The economic conditions creating tensions in society are not left or right wing. You just characterise them that way because it suits you.

MichelleScarn · 13/02/2023 20:16

The foreigner attacked my fair maid is a universal fear, and it's easily played on in the current climate
Is that another way of saying 'this never happens you silly Billy, you've/the girl misunderstood.....'

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2023 20:20

Neither we nor Labour bankrupted the country. The UK had to spend big bailing out the banks during the global financial crisis. Other countries bounced back, we didn't because Austerity is not a great recipe for growth.

The result was a load of disenfranchised people, ripe to be conned into voting Leave.

OP posts:
LexMitior · 13/02/2023 20:29

@MichelleScarn - no. It means it's been used time and time again by racists from Nazis to the United States to South Africa and many other places to say "outsiders need punishing for talking to our women".

Who knows whether the event happened. Looks like it did from the footage.

However, that doesn't justify gathering outside a hostel, creating disorder and a police van being burnt.

I'm not very keen on antisocial people who commit crimes. That includes asylum seekers and my fellow citizens.

NorthbyNorthwest22 · 13/02/2023 20:30

Left and right are 2 cheeks of the same arse… The British public are being played like a fiddle.

They want us tearing each other apart. It makes us weaker and easier to control.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 13/02/2023 20:33

Well, OP, if you're looking for evidence of your theory that there are a lot of right wing people in the UK these days, this thread seems to offer up quite a lot.

MarshaBradyo · 13/02/2023 20:36

How can there be ‘a lot of right wing people’ and the polls be so pro Labour - which people also post about a lot.

The shift is not towards the right. Mn is quite left though generally so these threads are part of that.

ElliF · 13/02/2023 20:39

Maybe because these ‘right wing people’ are all knuckle draggers and they are too scary for the sensitivities of the volunteers taking the polls.

Swipe left for the next trending thread