To be horrified by these ‘baby boxes’?

[TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl]

This just came up on my newsfeed and I’m absolutely horrified by the whole concept of women abandoning their newborns in the US:

www.newschannel10.com/2023/02/10/newborn-surrendered-baby-box-installed-less-than-3-months-ago/?fbclid=IwAR1qz7BbrIeF390b6YXl4mAscw82cTvt-Bzwnp_LMaZMMCjBcpltEZGHav0#ldzrvrvoa7ecauugx04

Im NOT having a go at these women, and this is supposedly to prevent newborns being abandoned in unsafe places.

But surely the answer isn’t “Hey brand new mum with raging hormones, probably depression, who is tired, stressed and not thinking straight - put your baby here for a nice new family” - it should be about supporting mums with PND, improving practical support, healthcare and rights of new mothers and reproductive rights. Not just “Oh well you don’t feel OK today so probably best you don’t be a mum, here’s a little box to pop your baby in”.

My spidey senses were tingling so when I did a bit of further research, the woman who started these is, of course, fiercely anti abortion. So that’s what it’s all about. it’s about not allowing women their reproductive rights but making them go through a birth they don’t want, have the trauma of having a baby they don’t want but it’s OK, and the heartache of giving them away - no harm done ey 😡

They’ve been around for centuries. Nothing new.

I can see they have purpose when all else fails. There are other options so most mothers won’t chose this. One of the things I think is tough on birth mothers in UK adoption law is that your identity is know to your child who can search for you if they want to. I expect most people are fine with this, but there should be an option to opt out. Amongst other things this provides that.

I'm with you OP and I found your post perfectly clear.

Abandoned babies are a sign of a society where there is a stigma attached to being a single mother, so women have to hide their pregnancies and then give the baby up for adoption in secret.

The US has next to no support for poor mothers and now they cannot even get an abortion, but those baby boxes indicate that even having the baby is being stigmatised and, as usual, people are more interested in getting a baby for free than making it easier for those children to stay with their mothers.

If these boxes have led to an increase in the numbers of babies being abandoned then you might have a point. The numbers seem low though, so it sounds like these are babies that would have been abandoned anyway, so this is just making that horribly sad situation that would have happened anyway a bit safer for the baby.

There’re in Poland, where obtaining an abortion is illegal. Initiative came from the Catholic Church authorities and is one of its very few ideas, which have wide society support. At least one hundred babies were rescued that way within last decade. Abandoning baby is illegal in Poland, like here, but provision has been introduced into Polish law, woman, who leaves her baby at the box ( okno życia, window of life, as they’re called in Poland), will not be prosecuted, should she changed her mind.

These have been around for years in other countries. China for example.

In Poland, it's called "window of life", is run by charity.

YABVU.

Women don’t have access to abortions.

Nobody has access to free or cheap health care.

I hear what you are saying and 100% support womens right to have a choice when it comes to abortion. As a result of this policy there is likely to be a few more women who put babies into these boxes.
As others have said if it’s between a dangerous location or these boxes I would rather the babies were put in these boxes.

These were in countries for years well before this particular one. Outside of US. Your spidey senses are exactly what it sounds. Useless.

Years ago a baby was left at a church near where I lived and by the time they were found it was too late 😢 I still think about that poor baby 💔

I think we should have them over here as well. If it saves just one baby it's worth it. Abortion is not always an option, moral, price l, family pressure. It's complicated. There is a clear need for them.

If they save lives it’s good but I agree with you there should be more support. I would worry about women who have mental health issues and would something like this seem like a solution to them in trying times, and for them to later regret it. I read about a 3 year old being put in one of them in I think Japan - I’m not sure what the authorities would do then.

Yes, and no.

The baby is put in the box, there is info in the box for the person surrendering the baby to take which details help they can get and what to do to get the baby back, what time frames etc.

But no, the whole point is they're anonymous and people surrendering babies are not tracked or hunted down and pressured - if that happened, some people would just dump a baby rather than use the box.

Babies are not put up for adoption immediately, they're looked after and there is a time frame (not huge, it can't be as the childs needs are the priority) in which the parent can get in touch and possibly reclaim the baby.

The baby box idea saves lives but feels distasteful because it’s a sticking plaster over a gaping wound.

It’s a cheap alternative to the more substantial investment in services and support for vulnerable women and girls that would get to the heart of the reasons why women leave their newborns and help prevent it happening in the first place. It plays to popular ideas of the innocent baby vs the ‘feckless’ mum.

These aren't just an American thing - one opened not far from me here in Belgium a few years ago. And abortion is legal and available, maternity care is very good, and childcare is heavily state subsidised. But nonetheless, some people have children who can't look after them, and a safe place to leave their babies is far better than abandoning them in the park to be found dead by a jogger, which also happened near us and was so traumatic.

If it's just due to a moment of madness, the babies will be safely looked after and the mothers can go and get them, and be offered extra support and help too. Harder to change your mind once your baby has been left outside on their own overnight.

These schemes should be available everywhere. They're not anti abortion, because abortion is not in play once these schemes are being used - they stop babies dying. The people who run them, whatever their motivation, are doing a good thing.

I have heard stories of how incredibly hard it is to relinquish your baby here and I think some aspects of private adoptions in the US are actually ahead of us. It’s perfectly rational for a teenage mum to not want an abortion but also not feel able to be a parent. It should never, ever be her only choice, but I do think the option to choose loving parents that you connect with and then continue to have contact as an auntie type figure could be a wonderful (if incredibly hard thing).
We should also have genuinely good provision for single parents and middle and lower income families (being back tax credits!!!).

We should also have access to contraception and abortions (as early as possible, free and without unnecessary waiting).

That way there would be true choice. At the moment you are welcome to have an abortion or to have the baby and (in many cases be poor) but you’re not able to want to see your baby grow and thrive with another family. You have no choice to do that really.
I’ve worked with mums who desperately loved their children but were drug addicts. I think of all the harm that could have been prevented if they’d been able to make that hard choice.

I don't like that they exist, because the women shouldn't have been in a position where they had to do that in the first place.

However, over here, despite all the 'Please get in touch, we want to make sure you're safe and well' press conferences after an infant has been found where it had been placed to ensure that somebody found them, all too often there's a discreet little news article a couple of months later, tucked away in the bottom of the regional news, where a woman has been charged with abandoning her baby, thus punishing her for coming forward in response to those fluffy 'We just want to help/reunite mother and baby' messages. That woman will clearly not be getting her baby back and now she's got a conviction to boot.

So perhaps they need to be more widely available, with the knowledge that they will not be punished and could be helped to reconnect if possible, access counselling and support and if she still feels that she is unable to keep the child, supported in that as well.

So you've missed the bit where birth mothers that leave their babies in those boxes have so many days to change their minds? And regardless of the reason she started it, the fact is that babies get abandoned, with or without the boxes, and I think we can all agree that a warm, dry and safe box is better than a trash can, or a park bench!

This.

The boxes provide practical support for the newborn. It is not an ideal world and your angst is aimed at the wrong thing.

Women?

Why don’t you go and have a quick watch of some of these ‘women’ who have used the baby boxes. I’ll spoil it for you, a huge amount of them are 16 or under. Children who have been the victims of rape and incest.

A safe space for them to place a baby is always a good thing, there’s a big orange pack inside the box with aftercare details in it and a list of places where the mother can get anonymous funded afterbirth care.

These boxes are a great idea and undoubtedly save multiple lives.

I saw a program recently about real 911 calls where a couple had returned home and could hear crying in the woods next to their house. They went to investigate and found a newborn baby wrapped in a bin bag, thank fully they found the baby in time and they survived. I think the boxes are a good thing if it means less babies are left to die.

Sometimes women don't have access to abortion and also consider they may have been raped. Why should they be forced to raise that child that was forced upon them by some scumbag rapist?

The OP wants women to be supported and if they are it should be made hard to relinquish a baby. It’s very difficult to find any aspect of American adoptions (where this is much easier) where the outcomes for birth mothers are improved. Relinquishing your baby should be possible but these mothers still need support and those babies still deserve to have access to their records. No one knows whether these box babies are left with the mothers’ consent, whether they are from girls or women, from abuse or incest. They should horrify us all even if ultimately they are deemed necessary.

I'm as pro-choice as they come but your reasoning here is ridiculous. You could say the same thing about abortion 'giving women a choice they may regret'.

These boxes are a great idea for women who need them - women in the UK and all over the world give up their babies too just in different, and sometimes more unsafe, ways.

Sometimes a woman just does not want to be a mother. It doesn't mean she's mentally ill or a bad person - she just doesn't want a baby. I know that goes against your apparent belief that all women must be amazing mothers who want children but it's not reality and does not mean they are just unsupported.

Why should it be hard to relinquish a baby?

If all the support is there, easily available etc. There will be still women who do not want or feel unable to raise their child.

Making it hard, helps who exactly?