My Unpopular Child

[LunchBoxTeeth]

My 7 year old DS isn't exactly disliked by his peers, but he isn't particularly liked either. If ever the kids are asked to choose someone to be with, he is one of the last to be chosen. Even when we have friends round our house, when there is more than one child, the other children are constantly calling "hey x, look at this" or whatever, but they never call out to my DS to look at things or join in. It's not that they purposefully leave him out, they just always choose a different child as a first choice, when one is available.

He gets invited to whole class parties, but very rarely gets invited to other parties. Now that whole class parties are becoming less common because the kids are older, he simply doesn't get invited at all. I asked him who he wanted to invite to his party this year, and it was heartbreaking to hear him talk about the people he really liked, because I know that they have already had a party and DS wasn't invited.

I spoke to the class teacher about it and she said that I could try having more play dates, or doing more clubs. But we already do that. Every week he invites someone over, but increasingly they turn down the invitation. He does some clubs, but hasn't made any friendships through them. I watch him play and if I see him doing something that I think might not be helpful, I talk about it to him afterwards, but nothing that he does seems such a big deal that people don't really want to be around him.

This sounds like my nephew... He never really had any friends in primary school, wasn't much invited to parties etc. But he was never really bothered by it. When he got into secondary school, and particularly in year 10/11 he started to find friends like him. He's now in year 12 and seems to have a nice ground of friends, although still doesn't socialise much outside school. He's autistic if it's relevant, diagnosed at age 7.

What is his birth month, btw? If he is one of the youngest in the school year, this may be part of the issue - there is a big developmental difference between a child who just turned 7 and one who is nearly 8. Maybe other kids just read him as young

One of mine, a summer baby, had similar issues as the pp. Then we had a bit of a blip and they had to repeat a year at high school, suddenly being the oldest in the year has made the world of difference and they have a solid friendship group. I feel a bit guilty as we had the option to defer their entry to reception, but chose not to. I wonder if we had, maybe they would have fitted in better.

This sounds like my DS, never invited to parties or to play, invitations from him to play turned down.. really makes me feel sad. He just hasn’t found his crowd and I don’t think it helps that he doesn’t like football as all the other boys seem football-mad. He starts secondary soon so I hope he will find his tribe there :(

That's really hard. Sooner or later he is going to meet some kids he clicks with. Don't worry about trying to make him someone he is not. He doesn't need to be the life and soul or have loads of friends. It may take him a while to meet some like minded friends. Maybe go easy on the playdates. It sounds like you are doing it because you think you should. My DS was a late bloomer socially and he really did not like having friends round as he saw home as his sanctuary. He is in secondary now and has three very close friends. They are all a little geeky and awkward, but all lovely. Keep going with hobbies if he enjoys them but be careful not to make him feel inadequate about all of this. It can take a while if you are not the loud confident extrovert type.

Gosh, thank you so much for all the responses. Sorry, we’ve been at swimming lessons and then homework, bedtime etc. So many sympathetic people who have been in a similar boat, thank you for the solidarity! I’ll try to answer as many questions as I can in one post:

That's tough. What are some of things you think he does 'wrong', for lack of a better word?

I think he’s a bit bossy and also he’s a bit brighter than average and likes to let them know that he’s clever, which I’m sure grates on the other kids. Having said that, no child is perfect and I can’t see how his traits are so bad that any other child is preferable to him for other kids to play with.

What clubs does he do? Some activities aren’t really set up for chatting. Maybe try something like scouting then he’s got another pool to be friends with.

He does do Beavers plus all the sleepovers and extra activities offered, I don’t know any of the parents at Beavers as we are only there to drop off and pick up. His other activity is swimming. He seems to get on really well with another boy at swimming so I said to the mum that if she wants to meet up at any point (we always chat while they swim) that DS would like that. I gave her my number. That was last week. She hasn’t messaged me and didn’t mention it this week.

Woodcraft folk is brilliant for making friends.

Thank you, I’ve never heard of this. I’ll look into it.

Is he trying to be best friends with the popular kids and ignoring the less popular kids?

No, I don’t think so. There are children who he doesn’t like, but I think it’s because they don’t like him. I don’t think he’s in a position to be rejecting anyone.

Personally I would be a bit careful about pointing out when he is getting it wrong and discussing it with him; maybe come at it from another direction: "Sam made everyone laugh when he said x,y,z."; "It was very kind of Ted to help Eva with her shoes."; "Did you enjoy it when Fred did x,y,z?"; "It wasn't very kind of Henry to snatch that biscuit." etc.

Yes, maybe that’s a better approach. Sometimes he tells me I’m criticising him when I’m giving him ‘pointers’ on how to get on better with people.

Has your son mentioned this as an issue for him? I mean is he aware that he isn’t having relationships like some of his peers?

Yes, he tells me how sad he is when nobody wants to play with him and how he sits in the playground alone. When I have walked past, sometimes he’s playing with kids and other times he is just sitting by himself.

Poor thing, this was me as a child!

Me too. I feel like I’ve passed my unlikableness on to him!

If I were you I’d make an appointment to speak with the teacher again. After all, they are with your child a lot and see how they interact with others. I’d ask for their honesty, could they say what they notice that means your child is left out.

Thank you. Maybe I’ll bring it up at the next parent’s evening - whenever that is.

Can I offer a different perspective? This was my DH. Never had friends. Didn’t really get invited to parties (he grew up in the Midwest in the US but he’s Asian). Was never part of a group. He was also shy and geeky. Even as an adult he has a small select group of friends. We met at Uni and we have been together since day dot. He is quite socially awkward. Quite a bit in fact. But that’s who he is. He’s kind, genuinely an equal parent and the loveliest person I know.

I didn’t quote your whole story, as my post is already getting quite long, but that was such a lovely story. Thank you.

What's he like personality wise? Is he loud, quiet, imaginative, contemplative, inclined or not inclined to take the lead on a game etc?

He is a bit loud but not overly so. He wants to take the lead in games and I think that's the most difficult part of his personality, as other children find him bossy.

Try and fit the activity to the personality trait because he's more likely to meet some like minded kids.

I’m not sure what activities are best for children who always want to take the lead?

Has the teacher mentioned any sen? When did the problem start?

No SEN has been mentioned and I have asked because I was trying to get to the bottom of things. He’s always been this way.

No advice as we are in a very similar situation with our 6 year old. She wants to invite her whole class to a party but I'm not sure many will turn up.

That is heartbreaking, I really feel for you.

This was my son. What we did was get him to be really good at something ‘cool’.

That’s a great idea!

Perhaps he needs to widen his net beyond the kids who can have their pick of friends and try to get to know the less popular ones.
Also, not doing something 'wrong' in children's friendships is often a world away from what adults think. Children can do something 'wrong' by not wearing the right clothes, having the wrong hair cut, being bad at football, being well behaved, being quiet or cautious

He’s not really old enough to be thinking about ‘cool’ or ‘popular’, or at least he has never mentioned anything like it. He has never said anything good or bad about other people’s hair/clothes or anything. When he talks about toys, it’s in the context of him wanting to play with them, rather than them giving the owner any kind of status.

Can the teacher offer the names of some children who might be a good fit personality wise so you can focus on these? Ex teacher speaking

I tried that, but generally they decline our playdates, very politely of course: “we can’t do this week, I’m afraid” but no follow up of when they can do. I don’t know what’s normal. Maybe nobody is having playdates ever and my expectations are too high. Maybe everyone is seeing friends every day and keeping it quiet. I don’t know where along that spectrum the reality might lie.

Sorry, not much help - but knowing you’re not alone hopefully is something.

We should arrange a meet up of MN's unpopular kids!

"Who knows, people are busy, just keep meeting new people and doing things you enjoy and maybe one day there'll be people where it works out."

That’s a really lovely way of phrasing it.

My DS just turned 6 so a little bit younger, but we do tend to spend time with families at the weekend or in the school holidays where the parents get on really well too.

Maybe it’s me they don’t like and that’s why he doesn’t get the invites.

I have 3 kids, youngest is 6 and I work 9-3 on weekdays. I need to take the kids to clubs and lessons after school and basically busy everyday. I do a couple of play dates in a year for the 6 year old if that. I organise birthday parties for say 6-8 kids and can't afford to invite every child. So if I know you I'm really sorry but please don't take it personally.

Thank you, maybe I am expecting too much with getting invites to playdates and parties.

Some of the kids that go to scouts will probably go to your sons school which will hopefully oil the wheels a bit there too.

Yes some do go to his school, but they still choose each other over him.

It’s not everyone’s cup of tea but my son does ballet, it’s a class full of girls and he seems so such more himself with the girls

He did do ballet but the girls told him that ballet was for girls and he shouldn’t be there. The ballet school tried to help and move him into a class with another boy, but just as he was about to move, the other boy quit. The school really wanted to hold on the DS as he was the only boy, but he felt embarrassed so quit.

Are there really 'popular crowds' at 7??

Not in my school, to my knowledge.

For boys, it really helps the social standing if he is good at football, or basketball, or whatever the 'big' sport around where you are is.

He doesn’t do any sports, other than swimming. Maybe sports would help him socially, especially as he gets older. He never mentions the other boys playing any sports at lunchtime, but maybe I've just never asked the right questions for it to come up.

Well, if it’s bossiness and being a bit loud, that’s 💯 fixable- he’ll grow out of it. I’d really try not to make too much of a deal out of the whole thing - don’t make him self conscious. It’s very tempting to project our own childhood experiences onto our kids, but he is not you. 7 is very young. This will sort itself out.

There was a girl in my DD year at primary and she was a sweet girl but she tried too hard and I really felt for her because there was just something about her that the other children didn’t click with. I often wonder what she’s like now, she’d be 23 now.

This was me as a child. The worst thing you can do is try to figure out why he might not be popular. The best thing you can do is love him for who he truly is and encourage that, regardless as to whether it makes him popular or not. Put all your focus on that. Then the right friends will come eventually.

I hope this doesn’t get taken the wrong way but does your child present in a fashionable/‘mainstream’ way? Dressed to fit in? Interests in mainstream things? Kids can be pretty easily impressed by the right trainers and toys.

Just did some Facebook hunting and she’s got what looks like a lovely group of friends. She found her tribe.

Both of my DCs are like this to an extent.

I would advise…

children at 7 are somewhat socially aware. Make sure there’s nothing offputting about him that would turn others off… really make sure he doesn’t smell funny, spit when he talks, have uncool hair, knows not to pick his nose, respects personal space etc.

kids don’t need to be cutting edge cool but they do need to blend in. Are the other kids around him wearing Boden, or Nike? Have a look and make sure he’s got a bit of whatever they’ve all got.

YY to what PPs say about encouraging interaction with the less-socially available children.

YY to sports and scouting.

YY also to dance and drama. Boys are really under-represented in these types of activities and can become very in-demand and popular.

YY also to ‘social currency’. Whether it’s-a Nintendo, or football cards or that bloody Prime drink make sure he has at least a little of what the cool kids have.

Also consider non-mainstream sports, or like PPs have said, playing an ensemble instrument. These will potentially enable friendships for life, and the skills learned in childhood can be reignited any time.

never say that other kids aren’t fair for not including him… go along the lines of… well, not everyone can be best friends… not everyone can invite loads of kids to their party. You have to help him accept some of this.

What's the behaviour you saw that made you comment to him?

I think he’s a bit bossy and also he’s a bit brighter than average and likes to let them know that he’s clever, which I’m sure grates on the other kids

This is my DD1. She struggled socially until about year 3/4, not helped by a weird queen bee situation in her class, but yeah some of it was her. Actually I know another girl who this could also describe and she has also turned the corner friendship wise since y3/4.

Funnily enough my DD2, who has impeccable social skills IMO also struggled till y3. Their school mixes the classes at that point and so established groups got mixed up. Also for both my DDs the addition of some new kids at y3 made a big difference.

Does your son’s school mix up classes? Is there likely to be an influx of new kids at any point?

I think you really need to be on the class WhatsApp group. All class parties go through there for my class, parents would just assume that everyone has seen the message and not try to work out if any parent isn't on it. They might even think you're rude for not responding, even though you've not seen the invitation.

In my experience mums have been very welcoming if you make the effort to talk to them, but won't go out of their way to talk to you. I haven't found any 'exclusive' groups, just groups of people who tend to stand and chat to each other because it's easier to do the same thing every day, not because they are unwelcoming of new people joining their group.

No behaviours, as such. Just him saying that the other kids don't want to play with him and he sits alone on the playground.

My DS17 is still like this. Started college but still not socialising much. He’s not like me that’s for sure. It will come I guess. Just hard to watch

This thread has been a big comfort and the ideas on here are very helpful. My son is 8 & very much a 'square peg' as a pp put it. Never made real friends, going through autism assessment at the moment. He does do stuff which annoys others and is part of his lack of understanding of social cues etc. But it's heartbreaking- no party invites, I get the brush off more often than not when trying to organise playdates for him, it's a source of constant worry. The advice about the brass instruments is good. He does Beavers but not made friends- enjoys the camps etc though. Will look into the woodcraft folk thing too! Thanks all who have posted, so good to hear all the suggestions and thank you op for starting this thread.

Sorry, no advise. But know that this is not uncommon. I've been in your son's position all my life, even with a husband and kids. I've learnt to be emotionally independent and strong for myself.

A couple of people on this thread have suggested autism or ADHD. It's worth thinking about. You describe my DS at the same age. 12 years later he waiting for a Stage II assessment. Have a read up about the ways this can present in school. It may not be applicable, but keep it in mind.

@LLunchBoxTeeth Thanks for your reply. Yes your right I definitely do need to get on the WhatsApp chat. I don't know why I find it so hard to talk to the mums in his class but I need to get over it as I know it is affecting him. He does do alot of out of school activities which he has friends from and I am fine communicating with these mums organising play dates, sadly none of these children are at the same school as him. I think it is because I don't do the school run as regularly as I would like to whenever I do I find it really intimidating I don't know why as no one has ever been rude to me before it's all just in my head. I wish you all the luck with yours It sounds like you are a fantastic mum and doing everything you can :) x

I would get him involved in the football team at school and also if you can a football team outside of school. Whatever the rights or wrongs of it, boys who are involved in football tend to be more popular (massive generalisation I know but I just mean generally speaking) x

DD was exactly like that at his age. She was later diagnosed Autistic & ADHD. Things improved once she understood herself better and found a hobby she really enjoyed. All her friends then came from that hobby.

Can you see anything in your child that is putting the other children off?

Kids can be really brutal in rejecting another child. If you asked them, they would probably tell you a few reasons.

Having said that, there might be one ringleader who has deemed your child uncool.

I'd sign him up to Beavers and a team sport, possibly football or cricket. My Foster Son was terribly shy and didn't speak a lot but I signed him up to Beavers, after a few months cricket and after a year Stage Coach singing, drama and dance. He gradually became more confident and vocal and then the friendships followed.