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AIBU?

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Original poster

to wonder about bystanders ( eg during assault on school girl in Ashford)

342 replies

whatchaos · 08/02/2023 13:24

to wonder about the ethics of being a bystander, and wonder what the bystanders were doing during the appalling assault in Ashford (Surrey) when a schoolgirl was beaten up, the awful video shows a grown woman encouraging primary aged kids to get involved...but there are any number of bystanders including a man in a car, the school principal (at the end) and any number of other school kids including much older looking boys. Wondering if anyone here would have tried to intervene to stop the fight or encouraged their children to intervene in cases like this?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-10-among-five-arrested-29158603

OP posts:
Reclaimtheoutdoors · 09/02/2023 20:44

Cocobutt · 09/02/2023 20:40

No wonder we are in the state we are, with so many people prepared to ignore this type of thing.

I completely agree.

I bet if it was their child being bullied or attacked at school they would want someone to step in and put a stop it.

Exactly. I de-escalated and split up fights as an educator and I’d do it again.

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 20:45

Headmasters have died doing that

Greenshake · 09/02/2023 20:46

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 20:45

Headmasters have died doing that

But don’t we all have a social responsibility to not turn away?

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 20:49

Greenshake · 09/02/2023 20:46

But don’t we all have a social responsibility to not turn away?

Show quote history

Do you think it is right to criticise a man who did actually end the fight, to expect him to risk his own life?

TitsInAbsentia · 09/02/2023 20:49

Oblomov23 · 08/02/2023 14:29

You need to understand the context. Everyone seems very opinionated but unless you know the area, you can't understand. I know it. I wouldn't intervene, it's more than my life is worth.

Absolutely agree. So much so that I wouldn't even be anywhere near the place, and several others around here.

AutumnDaysConkers · 09/02/2023 20:50

Greenshake · 09/02/2023 20:38

@AutumnDaysConkers thats not always the case, and I can tell you that from first hand experience. I have visited several traveller sites on my own as part of my role, and I am still here to tell the tale.

You've visited Travellers sites on your own to arrest someone and had no repercussions?

Greenshake · 09/02/2023 20:50

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 20:49

Do you think it is right to criticise a man who did actually end the fight, to expect him to risk his own life?

Show quote history

I take real issue with that. I haven’t criticised him at all.

Cocobutt · 09/02/2023 20:51

Why should a headmaster risk his life outside his school?

@RiktheButler

Most fights happen outside of the school
gates but it’s still the school’s responsibility and it’s common decency to help.

As someone who works in a school I do see bullying or fighting and I couldn’t just stand there and watch or not try and stop it somehow.

Not that long ago there were five big 16 year old boys between 5’10-6’3” in height all surrounding one girl.
All of them have MH issues/SEND and have attacked students and staff (including myself) before.
My radio wasn’t working and so I could have either walked away and tried to find someone else to help or try and help in that instant - it was natural instinct to shout as loud as I could and grab her arm and drag her away whilst telling them to back off before the police are called and they’ll be in serious trouble.

I would hope that anyone would try and do something in that situation rather than just watching.
Even shouting to stop and that the police have been called is often enough to get them to panic and run.

I can’t help but think if this was a little white girl then not one person would condone not intervening or just watching.

Greenshake · 09/02/2023 20:51

AutumnDaysConkers · 09/02/2023 20:50

You've visited Travellers sites on your own to arrest someone and had no repercussions?

Show quote history

Not to arrest someone, I am not a Police Officer. I have gone to refuse a request made on several occasions.

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 20:53

Greenshake · 09/02/2023 20:50

I take real issue with that. I haven’t criticised him at all.

Show quote history

Plenty if people have. Do you agree with them?

Greenshake · 09/02/2023 20:54

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 20:53

Plenty if people have. Do you agree with them?

Show quote history

Don’t twist the point. I think your earlier comment was unfair and incorrect.

AutumnDaysConkers · 09/02/2023 20:55

NotTerfNorCis · 09/02/2023 20:23

The teachers aren't to blame at all. It's disgusting they're being criticised for this.

Glad to hear the attackers got arrested. That woman deserves jail time.

I agree to a certain extent because I can understand why locals and teachers wouldn't get involved.
However the headmaster should have intervened. He is the head and his role is to protect his pupils. Just as a Captain on a ship would be the last one off.
He was very casual how he broke it up. The girl was being kicked in the face. All of the girls and that awful mother should be done for attempted murder.

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 20:56

@Cocobutt

I can’t help but think if this was a little white girl then not one person would condone not intervening or just watching.

Utter nonsense. How many times can we tell you what the community/area are like? Nobody is going toe to toe with them
**

Cocobutt · 09/02/2023 20:57

@RiktheButler

If a child at school is getting bullied or beaten up, should staff only intervene if they know what their parents are like?

Otherwise should they just turn a blind eye?

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 20:58

Greenshake · 09/02/2023 20:54

Don’t twist the point. I think your earlier comment was unfair and incorrect.

Show quote history

I apologise if you took a comment the wrong way, but as you won't acknowledge the risks involved and history - which I have told you my personal connection to - then we won't ever agree

Thechoccieorange · 09/02/2023 20:58

When I was 16 I was subjected to a vicious assault by a mentally ill man in broad daylight in a major city centre. (Screaming about the devil being all around us as he kicked the shit out of me).
The street was very busy and security guards from a nearby building saw it all. Nobody intervened to help or even call the police.
My friend who was with me was terrified and screaming and had to help me off the floor all by herself. I was very bitter about it for years but as an adult seeing gun, knife crime on the increase, I can understand why most people would not wish to put themselves in harms way for a stranger.

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 21:00

Cocobutt · 09/02/2023 20:57

@RiktheButler

If a child at school is getting bullied or beaten up, should staff only intervene if they know what their parents are like?

Otherwise should they just turn a blind eye?

You've made an allegation of racism, you clearly don't understand the situation and you ignore basic facts

Might be time to mute all the Billy Big balls posting about this with frankly no clue

Floofyduffypuddy · 09/02/2023 21:00

I felt so incredibly judgmental, adults watching and teachers not helping and now I've completely changed my mind.

Greenshake · 09/02/2023 21:02

RiktheButler · 09/02/2023 20:58

I apologise if you took a comment the wrong way, but as you won't acknowledge the risks involved and history - which I have told you my personal connection to - then we won't ever agree

Show quote history

I didn’t take the comment the wrong way at all, you blatantly came out and said that I had criticised Phillip Lawrence. I also acknowledged your link to him several posts ago when you asked if I had heard of him. On top of that, on at least two other posts I have made comments about people making their own risk assessments of situations - which is an obvious acknowledgement of risk.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 09/02/2023 21:03

Utter nonsense. How many times can we tell you what the community/area are like? Nobody is going toe to toe with them

I don't know why some people have a problem understanding this.

I don't live there, you couldn't pay me to live in Stanwell, but unfortunately the issues spill into other towns.

SnowFir · 09/02/2023 21:06

As soon as the teachers turned up the girl stopped beating up the other one and walked away. Shrieking at them and grabbing them would have inflamed the situation instead of calming it like they did.

Cocobutt · 09/02/2023 21:08

@RiktheButler

Please just answer the question:

If a child at school is getting bullied or beaten up, should staff only intervene if they know what their parents are like?

Otherwise should they just turn a blind eye?

You are saying people were right to not intervene due to the people involved and their families.

So do you think children getting beaten up or bullied should only be helped depending on who the bullies are?

If your child was getting bullied at school and beaten up outside of the schools gate would you be ok with people not intervening?

PeanutButterSmoothie · 09/02/2023 21:18

Not watched the video but travellers are renowned for settling disputes with their fists. It's almost a code of honour.

Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist about me perpetuating stereotypes have a look on YouTube. Even middle aged men seem to do it, but usually it'll be broken up immediately when one admits defeat and they'll shake hands after.

Ohyoudodoyou · 09/02/2023 21:23

Several years ago yes I would have waded in.
Now, I'm fearful of violence and today's commonplace attacks have reached 'Peaky Blinders' levels - machetes, knives, baseball bats, samurai swords. All caught on record in your own roads, your high streets, your school gates, restaurants, shopping centres for all to view ad infinitum.
As horrified as I was by this if I were to ask myself truthfully what would I do? I'd step well back and call the police.

musicforthesoul · 09/02/2023 21:27

"Normal" case teens fighting I may intervene but not a chance in a situation like this where there's clearly adults encouraging it.

I feel really sorry for the girl attacked and I'd go out of sight to call the police but not a chance I'm intervening directly.

If you got in the middle of a fight like that round here best case scenario you'd end up with your windows put through and entire families making your life hell, worst case you'd be in hospital yourself.