Dogs in cafes etc

[Dogscanteatonions]

I love dogs but I'm utterly fed up of them being cafes pubs restaurants shops etc, partly because I am allergic and partly because so many are poory behaved

However in the last week I've seen:

A man at the bar in a pub with his dog on the bar stool next to him with its paws up on the actual bar

A photo on the Facebook account of a favourite bar/ restaurant of a big hairy dog lying on one of the sofas - I'd have an allergic reaction if I sat on furniture right after a dog had been in it.

And to top it off yesterday I was in a cafe and the table next to me had a puppy which peed on the floor profusely which they halfheartedly mopped up with just a tissue from a pocket and didn't even tell staff so they could properly clean it. This was right next to serving counter.

I know a huge amount of people on Mumsnet are crazy pro dogs but I defy anyone to defend this. How do people think this is ok??

Aibu to think you should keep your dogs off furniture in these places and that you have an obligation to ensure its cleaned up properly if your 3 dog messes?

I think cats on leads are common in the US as they can’t let them out.
I have tried all the cats I’ve owned with a harness and they weren’t having any of it. I know some cats go for a walk without a leash at all, they just fancy the walk I guess. One of mine would follow me to the end of the road but wouldn’t come any further, just wait for me to come back.

I love dogs but I think the pee on the floor scenario is absolutely grim! I would’ve complained.

Humans are at the top of the hierarchy. Our brains are capable of much higher cognitive abilities than animals. It is embarrassing how people do not realise that. However much you love your doggy, it cannot do what a person can, good or bad.

I do realise that - I’m not stupid. My point was that I wish we could move to a way of thinking that was less abusive of that hierarchical status. Yes. we can do things that animals can’t - and a lot of those things are absolutely terrible. Humans are literally removing habitats all over the world and causing animals to go extinct. We think we have the right to do that because we’re at the top and our needs, including our need to have more and more humans, matter more than anything else.

Ultimately what it comes down to is that humans may be the cleverest and yet we are the ones who will make ourselves extinct through greed and overpopulation. It’s honestly ridiculous that we consider ourselves superior to other animals when that’s what we’re doing with our higher cognitive abilities.

Dogs always welcome in my bar. Even dog paws can't be any worse than customers coughing over the bar at me. And if you want to talk about peeing on the floor, you should go into the males loo at the end of the night

I do realise that - I’m not stupid. My point was that I wish we could move to a way of thinking that was less abusive of that hierarchical status

What you mean like stopping the abuse of farm animals who are treated appallingly, mass produced to be cheap and end up in your dogs' food?

Yes I agree. You really should stop abusing your hierarchical position for an unnecessary animal.

I don’t have a dog.

' I’ve never seen a cat on a walk in RL.'

I've never seen a dog pee in a cafe, sit on a table in public, sit up at a bar, jump on furniture in a restaurant ( or be in a restaurant), run up and down a train licking people, shopping in John Lewis ( or be in any other big shop, clothing store, mall - and that includes guide dogs ) yet apparently it happens all the time.
According to posters on this thread.

Point still stands. Either extend the consideration for all animals or none. Putting dogs on a pedestal where they get to be abuse free and have human privilege is absurd when the same so called animal lovers support animal abuse for other species.
Hypocrites. Just saying.

'I think cats on leads are common in the US as they can’t let them out.'

Ah that explains it. I heard that in Switzerland no-one's allowed to own goldfish.

The reason I go on about emotional needs of owners is that actually, this can be irresponsible. And it can lead to harm. What it can be is, what is good for me is good for the dog. That is the emotional state of the owner.

Animals have their own needs. Yet you can see this emotional owner disregard the nature of the animal.

Keep the dog in small place. Suits me so suits the dog.

Take the dog to the pub. I like the pub so to the dog likes it.

I love the baby. My dog loves the baby.

Now, there are lots of the logical things wrong with all those, but the number one thing is that it doesn't respect the animal's nature.

@MarysGirlChildWasLate4ChristmasDay Interestingly I think it we looked at it through the lens I’m suggesting, then dog ownership itself might change. Puppy farms, over breeding, designer dogs - that’s all done for the benefit of humans. There are many elements of dog ownership that would be improved if we stopped looking at ourselves as inherently superior to them and therefore able to dictate what their physical attributes should be, and so on.

I have no idea if my dog 'likes' the pub. He acts as though he gets enjoyment out of going as, like I say, he makes a beeline for the door if we walk past and he looks happy, wagging his tail when he gets fusses off people. He wouldn't curl up and go to sleep if he was stressed either. As, funnily enough, after 11 years, I do know my dog quite well.

I don't generally take my dog places with me because she's so badly behaved! However, if she does come with us, she's not on the furniture. She has done her business in shops and I have attempted to clear it up and then gone and confessed to staff members. And then left the premises in shame, never to return. Photo of said hooligan

Now, there are lots of the logical things wrong with all those, but the number one thing is that it doesn't respect the animal's nature
No offense meant but this shoes your lack of understanding of dogs.

For a start, dogs are as unique as children are. Some are much more intelligent than others, which leads to some needing much more mental stimulation than others. Some dogs are sociable, others not. Some are anxious, others are care free. Some love noise and buzzing others hate it. Some cope well on their own for many hours, others don't.

A good pet owner is one that recognises their pets needs and what makes them happy, not one that makes generalisation on the basis that their pet is 'just a dog'. I currently have a small, extremely intelligent dog. Their needs are completely different to my old big dog. My current dog absolutely love going to cafés, like going anywhere that provides stimulation. They don't bark, they don't go to people unless prompted. They have never relieved themselves in such a place. They adore company and if they get a small treat, they think it's the best outing!

There's no such thing as 'animal nature'! Would you treat a cat the same as a monkey? You have to trust that owners know their pet best and act towards them in a loving manner just like the vast majority of parents do with their kids.

@vivainsomnia This is what I’m trying to get at with the whole “humans need to be more humble” thing. You’re conscious of and responsive to the specific personality and needs of your pet, and therefore ensure that they’re not just catering to your whims and fitting in with what you want to do. You sound like an amazing pet owner.

@vivainsomnia - I think you prove my point.

You are reacting very emotionally to idea that your dog is not special or individual. That is about you.

It's not about the animal, it's about your feelings: and while we have pets and enjoy them, they are not equivalent to people.

I accept for you, you feel differently. But that doesn't mean anyone who doesn't share your feelings on the special nature of your dog is wrong. In fact, they are the majority of people.

I'm sure someone will pop up and sometimes say about the stress dogs can feel when not approached correctly, particularly by children. But of course, children simply think of dogs as friends. By not acknowledging the dog's nature, we encourage that.

She looks ferocious

It’s funny how two people can have such different responses to one post! I’m not saying either of us is wrong or right, who knows, but it’s fascinating nonetheless.

I feel for you with the allergies... And for anyone with allergies /fear /dislike that just wants a dog-free space, there aren't so many now....
I like dogs, and dress like a bag lady so dirty paws aren't really an issue but when you think about it the whole dog situation is pretty outrageous.... A huge number of people, dare I say majority of owners, don't maintain real control over their animals.... If you want to enjoy the countryside or beach you will inevitably get a touch right in your face /jump up your clothes /molest your picnic... To say nothing of the poop....
At times I've pondered how interesting it is people are not expected to be responsible for their cats.... But, let's face it, cats don't really rush up to people and jump on them, do they?

I mean, little kids in cafes can be annoying... noisy and messy, but they generally don't put their muddy paws on you or lick your face or piss on your handbag.....

@fitzwilliamdarcy Thank you 😊

@LexMitior, indeed, I don't agree at all. I respond to my dog since the moment I got them on the basis on how they express themselves. Dogs are not machines. They might not talk but they certainly communicate and some dogs do so at a level that could be compared to a toddler/small child. I respond emotionally from our communication, not from what I want to be.

One example. This breed has a tendency to feel the cold so when the temperature first started to drop, I got them a warm cover. They hated it and made it clear that they were fine in the cold without it. Did I react emotionally? Yes I guess so, bit not in terms of what I wanted but what they communicated to me.

I totally accept that mot everyone think much of dogs and I don't expect them to react to mine. They don't have to like them or give it any attention, but I don't consider that I am doing anything wrong taking them anywhere I am allowed to, and have to answer to people who dint like it or ask me why I don’t leave them home as a few here seem to think I do.

I walked in to the pub about 10pm last week and saw a woman holding a baby up to her chest - I assumed sleeping. The woman next to her was the same (but I couldn't see clearly). I thought it was a strange time to have a small child out.

They were dogs!

It's all this "fur baby" guff. I know people love their dogs - but it really is going too far.

If you want to enjoy the countryside or beach you will inevitably get a touch right in your face /jump up your clothes /molest your picnic... To say nothing of the poop....
This is the bit I don't get. Yes, there are dog owners who are clueless when it comes to teaching and disciplining their do, same as parents, but I've never experienced this as a regular event. The poo though....don't get me started on that one...

It's all this "fur baby" guff. I know people love their dogs - but it really is going too far
But why do you care? How is this impacting on the enjoyment of your evening?

And that impacted your life in what way exactly?