Page 35 | Dogs in cafes etc

Dogscanteatonions · 2023-02-07T10:46:45+00:00

I love dogs but I'm utterly fed up of them being cafes pubs restaurants shops etc, partly because I am allergic and partly because so many are poory behaved However in the last week I've seen: A man at the bar in a pub with his dog on the bar stool next to him with its paws up on the actual bar A photo on the Facebook account of a favourite bar/ restaurant of a big hairy dog lying on one of the sofas - I'd have an allergic reaction if I sat on furniture right after a dog had been in it. And to top it off yesterday I was in a cafe and the table next to me had a puppy which peed on the floor profusely which they halfheartedly mopped up with just a tissue from a pocket and didn't even tell staff so they could properly clean it. This was right next to serving counter. I know a huge amount of people on Mumsnet are crazy pro dogs but I defy anyone to defend this. How do people think this is ok?? Aibu to think you should keep your dogs off furniture in these places and that you have an obligation to ensure its cleaned up properly if your 3 dog messes?

Sleepytimebear · 09/02/2023 07:33

howmanybicycles · 08/02/2023 22:04

No. You can wash a floor but not fabric cushions. Allergens stay around for years in fabric. Even if a leather sofar, people never reach deep into the arms etc. To get all traces of hair out.
So very different. Might be good if there was proper.advertising of this sort of issue because some considerate people would then keep their animals in check more.

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I just don't follow this at all. If you are highly allergic and the dog has been in the pub 10 minutes before you arrive, what does it matter that the floor can be cleaned? It won't have been cleaned before you arrive? There might be a dog in the pub at the same time as you. Surely in these cases it's irrelevant where you're say as the allergen is everywhere?

AprilFools2015 · 09/02/2023 07:38

I'm very unkeen on this too, since also allergic to animal hair. Also my DS with ASD hates the barking, so cannot cope with dogs in places. I feel like this should be re-considered by public places, because dog hair could kill me, yet nothing done, but people have to smoke outside because tabbaco kills people. Plus who takes priority? A dog owner or an asthmatic or a scared young child with ASD, etc., etc? Service dogs are an exception though as the partially sighted & hearing impaired are also part of the protected characteristics catergory for the purposes of discrimination. This is a debate that also rages in regards to buses & buggy vs wheelchair. At the moment we're not getting it right, because does a dog have more right to be in that cafe or a human? Would you move / fold up your buggy for a wheelchair user? If yes, then you should take your dog outside for an asthmatic or someone with autistism (or indeed if the dog needs the toilet).

Rainforest6 · 09/02/2023 08:08

Around here it is common for pubs to allow dogs in the pub bit, but often have a section where dogs aren't allowed which I think is a good compromise.

Ultimately a lot of these behaviours eg barking, dogs greeting others etc or wandering around are more annoying for other dog owners. If I go to a pub and settle my dog nicely, it's really frustrating when other dogs disrupt them. Theres nothing worse than a free roaming pub landlord dog coming up to your settled dog. I wouldn't be going back to somewhere where there's off lead dogs inside with my dog, and would avoid it if I knew because it would make my meal stressful.

I do also think places need to figure out whether they have the space etc to be dog friendly

It's a bit like when you go to a supposedly child friendly cafe to realise that there's really limited space for high chairs, no baby changing etc

Theres nothing more annoying than googling to find somewhere dog friendly to find it's not the right set up. To have dogs there needs to be the right spacing between the tables so that there's space for dogs to lie out of the way (and not not next to the table next to yours dog). Theres been times when I've booked, said we were bringing a dog and been placed in the middle with zero room for the dog not to be in people's way

I recently went on a boat trip advertised as dog friendly but didn't take mine, some person did but it turns out the captain had a free roaming dog also. The poor visitors dog sat nicely, one of the captains dogs just sat with him but the other repetitively bothered the visitors dog. The trip was for a few hours, and I can't imagine the other tourist could relax at all because of the captains dog.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 09/02/2023 08:35

AprilFools2015 · 09/02/2023 07:38

I'm very unkeen on this too, since also allergic to animal hair. Also my DS with ASD hates the barking, so cannot cope with dogs in places. I feel like this should be re-considered by public places, because dog hair could kill me, yet nothing done, but people have to smoke outside because tabbaco kills people. Plus who takes priority? A dog owner or an asthmatic or a scared young child with ASD, etc., etc? Service dogs are an exception though as the partially sighted & hearing impaired are also part of the protected characteristics catergory for the purposes of discrimination. This is a debate that also rages in regards to buses & buggy vs wheelchair. At the moment we're not getting it right, because does a dog have more right to be in that cafe or a human? Would you move / fold up your buggy for a wheelchair user? If yes, then you should take your dog outside for an asthmatic or someone with autistism (or indeed if the dog needs the toilet).

If my dogs hair could kill you, why the heck would you come into a dog friendly place? Me taking my dog outside because you asked me to surely wouldn't help as his dander l and hair would still be present?

Flinstones · 09/02/2023 08:52

Edthehorse · 08/02/2023 22:19

A major reason for this problem is the very mumsnet view that dogs should never be left alone. If you have a puppy (and you shouldn't have one if you EVER have to leave the house) you must be surgically attached to it until it's a year old and then you must only leave it alone for 5 minutes at a time. It's just bollocks!

This is only my personal experience talking but a lot of the people that take their dogs to cafes etc will be lockdown dog owners.

Most experienced dog owners who have grown up with dogs in the family have no issue leaving their dog for a few hours to go somewhere.

Never leaving a dog alone (or for very short periods) is a modern concept that isn't doing dogs or dog owners in general any favours.

My only caveat to that is your mention of pubs...

Are you talking about an inner city pub or a pub in the countryside? Because a dog in a country pub, in my experience will have been on a nice long walk and will be tired and curling up under the table for a nap. Absolutely nothing wrong with dogs in a country pub.

That is a very good explanation to this dog problem we seem to have.

Flinstones · 09/02/2023 08:53

BlueDiamondGlow · 08/02/2023 22:25

I'm with you op. Loads of places where I live are dog friendly but I much prefer to go somewhere without dogs.
I'm a bit nervous of dogs and don't want to worry about them coming in my space etc "oh they are just being friendly"

If I ever owned a pub or cafe I wouldn't allow dogs inside.

Totally agree

Flinstones · 09/02/2023 08:58

youngwildandni · 09/02/2023 06:09

I haven’t RTFT.
I love dogs.

BUT…. I hate dogs in pubs and cafes! In my experience, a lot of dog owners are so besotted with their dogs that they just assume everyone else will be too, and therefore don’t mind that they bark/ approach people/ beg for food/ absolutely stink (a lot of dog owners are nose blind too!) because they think everyone else will think it just as adorable as they do. I come from a small town with only 3 pubs and they all allow dogs. Every time I go in there there is at least one dog, and even if they’re well behaved (and very often they’re not) I don’t like them being there. There’s also a lot of hostility from dog owners if they’re asked to stop their dog from barking etc, as if the dog has more rights than the people in there, paying to eat!

Exactly this!

OMG12 · 09/02/2023 09:28

ThisIsBrandNewInformation · 09/02/2023 07:26

Humans are at the top of the hierarchy. Our brains are capable of much higher cognitive abilities than animals. It is embarrassing how people do not realise that. However much you love your doggy, it cannot do what a person can, good or bad.

We should treat animals kindly and I abhor cruelty to them. But making out they are at an equal ‘level’ to humans is just silly.

Anyway I am glad that threads like these have opened some dog-lovers’ minds and made them realise that not everyone adores their dogs. Who knows, it could lead to a change to more considerate behaviour.

For years, cafe and restaurants have largely been dog-free. And designed for humans. Due to economic reasons they are now allowing stinky dogs in. Of course there will be some push-back. In an ideal world people would have a choice of where to go. I am lucky here in London and there are many nice clean and civilised places to go to that won’t allow dogs in. I feel for those who have more limited choice.

The human brain might be capable of a lot, unfortunately the world is full of people not even tickling the surface of its potential. My dog is a lot kinder and has a lot more emotional intelligence than many humans.

she is better behaved than many humans, at no point has she walked up to some in a pub and threatened to glass someone for “looking at her funny”, she doesn’t feel the need to put others down to pick herself up. She smells better than a lot of humans.

Dogs don’t commit genocide, they don’t go to war, they don’t create systems that leave people to a life of misery, they don’t have greed which destroys the planet, they don’t ignore and demean a dog over the colour of its fur.

So yes human brains might have a greater capacity, but they really aren’t using it very wisely a lot of the time.

ThisIsBrandNewInformation · 09/02/2023 09:32

OMG12 · 09/02/2023 09:28

The human brain might be capable of a lot, unfortunately the world is full of people not even tickling the surface of its potential. My dog is a lot kinder and has a lot more emotional intelligence than many humans.

she is better behaved than many humans, at no point has she walked up to some in a pub and threatened to glass someone for “looking at her funny”, she doesn’t feel the need to put others down to pick herself up. She smells better than a lot of humans.

Dogs don’t commit genocide, they don’t go to war, they don’t create systems that leave people to a life of misery, they don’t have greed which destroys the planet, they don’t ignore and demean a dog over the colour of its fur.

So yes human brains might have a greater capacity, but they really aren’t using it very wisely a lot of the time.

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I agree of course that many humans are idiots. Cruel, insensitive, disgusting, selfish etc. But dogs are animals. They cannot read, write, govern, teach, go to medical school or do anything else that would help run a country! We are stuck with humans in charge for now. And no deification of dogs can change that.

*someone is going to tell me their dog can read now, aren’t they.

ThisIsBrandNewInformation · 09/02/2023 09:35

Some of this stuff is cultural for me. My parents come from a country/culture where dogs are sometimes kept as guard dogs and many are very well looked-after. But they stay outside. Sleep in kennels. Not to be allowed inside. And certainly not on sofas, beds, licking people’s faces etc. That’s probably partly why I find dogs in eateries so gross. Many cultures find it unacceptable.

Flinstones · 09/02/2023 09:36

Yes! There will be a huge amount of posters saying how there dog reads, writes, etc!!

howmanybicycles · 09/02/2023 09:37

Sleepytimebear · 09/02/2023 07:33

I just don't follow this at all. If you are highly allergic and the dog has been in the pub 10 minutes before you arrive, what does it matter that the floor can be cleaned? It won't have been cleaned before you arrive? There might be a dog in the pub at the same time as you. Surely in these cases it's irrelevant where you're say as the allergen is everywhere?

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I don't sit in the floor and the levels of dander can't build up because the floor is cleaned. It really does make a big difference when it's on soft furnishings.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 09/02/2023 09:39

howmanybicycles · 09/02/2023 09:37

I don't sit in the floor and the levels of dander can't build up because the floor is cleaned. It really does make a big difference when it's on soft furnishings.

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Half the pubs we frequent are carpeted

howmanybicycles · 09/02/2023 09:45

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 09/02/2023 09:39

Half the pubs we frequent are carpeted

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Not the ones I go to but carpeted ones with dogs I'd have to avoid.

Sunshineboo · 09/02/2023 09:46

AprilFools2015 · 09/02/2023 07:38

I'm very unkeen on this too, since also allergic to animal hair. Also my DS with ASD hates the barking, so cannot cope with dogs in places. I feel like this should be re-considered by public places, because dog hair could kill me, yet nothing done, but people have to smoke outside because tabbaco kills people. Plus who takes priority? A dog owner or an asthmatic or a scared young child with ASD, etc., etc? Service dogs are an exception though as the partially sighted & hearing impaired are also part of the protected characteristics catergory for the purposes of discrimination. This is a debate that also rages in regards to buses & buggy vs wheelchair. At the moment we're not getting it right, because does a dog have more right to be in that cafe or a human? Would you move / fold up your buggy for a wheelchair user? If yes, then you should take your dog outside for an asthmatic or someone with autistism (or indeed if the dog needs the toilet).

the dog does not have more right than the human

the business has the right to be dog friendly or not

if a place is dog friendly then other people have the right to go there and enjoy the services

business' have to make choices - like they have the right to serve peanuts/be completely peanut free, have an area for kids or allow them in/ be and adult only environment or serve breakfast or not.

They will pick the model that works for them.

I do feel sorry for people who are allergic or frightened of dogs. hopefully as the demand
grows for non dog friendly places, some
will spring up for you or places will change

even in the most dog friendly parts of cornwall there are some places that are still not dog friendly in every village town et cetera so there must be a demand for it somewhere. But there's a lot of so a demand to let the dogs in. We have to vote with our feet here.

OMG12 · 09/02/2023 10:02

ThisIsBrandNewInformation · 09/02/2023 09:35

Some of this stuff is cultural for me. My parents come from a country/culture where dogs are sometimes kept as guard dogs and many are very well looked-after. But they stay outside. Sleep in kennels. Not to be allowed inside. And certainly not on sofas, beds, licking people’s faces etc. That’s probably partly why I find dogs in eateries so gross. Many cultures find it unacceptable.

I guess the UK is well known for being a nation of animal lovers though so it follows that the culture here is very much inclusionary of animals in a wider range of environments

ThisIsBrandNewInformation · 09/02/2023 10:05

OMG12 · 09/02/2023 10:02

I guess the UK is well known for being a nation of animal lovers though so it follows that the culture here is very much inclusionary of animals in a wider range of environments

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Yes. And it’s getting more and more so. More inclusive for animals and possibly less so for some humans. That’s another debate though.

LexMitior · 09/02/2023 10:06

No it's not cultural or about animal lovers. It's a recent development by people who are cracked enough to talk about fur babies.

I've got a cat. There are some nutty people who give cats baths, put them in prams or backpacks and take them on hikes. The idea that domestic pets need these experiences is really down to the emotional state of the owner. Nothing else.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 09/02/2023 10:10

LexMitior · 09/02/2023 10:06

No it's not cultural or about animal lovers. It's a recent development by people who are cracked enough to talk about fur babies.

I've got a cat. There are some nutty people who give cats baths, put them in prams or backpacks and take them on hikes. The idea that domestic pets need these experiences is really down to the emotional state of the owner. Nothing else.

One of my cat goes on dog walks. Unleashed, of his own free will. 2nd cat to do it actually.

DenmarkDen · 09/02/2023 10:10

Justellingthetruth · 09/02/2023 07:19

@Dogscanteatonions

people are the issue not the dogs
people should
need to pass an exam to get a licence to have a dog.

This!

Flinstones · 09/02/2023 10:11

LexMitior · 09/02/2023 10:06

No it's not cultural or about animal lovers. It's a recent development by people who are cracked enough to talk about fur babies.

I've got a cat. There are some nutty people who give cats baths, put them in prams or backpacks and take them on hikes. The idea that domestic pets need these experiences is really down to the emotional state of the owner. Nothing else.

Well said, it's exactly this!

DenmarkDen · 09/02/2023 10:11

DenmarkDen · 08/02/2023 16:43

Thank you, how lovely of you to say so, but I think I'm just an ordinary dog lover.

So sorry, wrong post!

DenmarkDen · 09/02/2023 10:12

DenmarkDen · 09/02/2023 10:11

So sorry, wrong post!

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Oh dear Lord, I really am rubbish at posting on MN. Please ignore and pass on by. I'll get the hang of it eventually!

Flinstones · 09/02/2023 10:13

people are the issue not the dogs
people should
need to pass an exam to get a licence to have a dog.

Exactly this!

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 09/02/2023 10:13

Flinstones · 09/02/2023 10:13

people are the issue not the dogs
people should
need to pass an exam to get a licence to have a dog.

Exactly this!

Should need to pass an exam to own any pet or have kids as well