To wonder how the strikes will end?

[Wingingit11]

This isn’t a thread about whether you agree with strikes as a concept or not (there have been soooo many) but to question how you think the strikes will end?! To me, the longer they go on, the less likely there is to be movement on either side ?

Right - but is that based on a life expectancy of only 10 years more than retirement age - because my life expectancy is only 10 years more than retirement.

Carers should absolutely be paid more - this teacher would 100% support you in getting a raise. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. The government wants to see all of us workers fighting over the scraps.

GneissGuysFinishLast
your pension payments are not worked out on your life expectancy age, whatifyou lived for 15 years past it

In at least one of the disputes, the workers are fine with their existing terms and conditions but the government wants to take away things like predictable shift patterns that make it possible to have some semblance of a social life - I might work two weekends in three, but at least I know that I can make plans and book tickets for events on the third one. Many have said "I would rather have no raise at all than accept that". Meanwhile inflation continues to nibble away at the value of their pay.

Oh, and people ARE leaving. Why do you think that TPE is in such a mess? They are losing staff to freight hauliers and devolved operators faster than they can train replacements, two and a half times as many drivers are leaving as you would usually expect from the normal level of retirements and resignations. In the same way hospitals can't recruit enough staff to replace those who are leaving to take up better paid work abroad or with agencies, schools are having to use unqualified staff to teach on a regular basis because it is so difficult to recruit qualified teachers, particularly in certain specialisms.

So yes, people are leaving. Public services are falling apart without them. Any real business would see this happening and make itself more attractive to employees through offering better pay and conditions than its competitors. Not the government though, they'd rather everything disintegrated than pay skilled workers the market rate and treat them like human beings instead of robots.

Inflation coming down doesn't mean that prices will. Inflation is only the rate of change. When inflation comes down then lower pay offers would be acceptable. While inflation is high then people need a raise.

Well yes, this is my point; they’re not backing down even though it’s costing money.

I’ve not heard of any hospitality businesses having issues where we are, they’ve all been packed as normal. Appreciate this may be different elsewhere. I didn’t say there would be no impact of strikes, but that their impact has been reduced.

So the best teachers get snapped up by private schools, while schools in challenging areas end up with TAs teaching firefighting classes of 60 because the school can't recruit good, qualified staff. Is this the sort of society you want to live in? One where only rich kids can read and write.

Your payments aren’t, but the “pot” you need is. The pot you quoted is based on living to the average life expectancy - which is around 88 years. So based on claiming pension for approximately 20 years. However, given that life expectancy where I live is 10 years less than the national average, it’s likely I’ll not be able to pull from my pension for that long.

Pensions don’t sit in individual pots - they are all lumped in together. Roughly half of all people claiming them don’t get their whole “pot” - and roughly half of the people claiming it get more than their whole “pot” - that’s how averages work. It balances on the whole.

The population of the UK is skewed towards the south of England, which is incidentally the most affluent and the most long-lived. Therefore, life expectancy is skewed. Parts of Glasgow have a life expectancy that is less than Iraq or the Gaza Strip.

These differences occur even when statistics are adjusted for poverty levels.

So @Unphased once all of the staff have done as you suggested, upped and left, who will be coming to your mother's aid when she's fallen and broken her hip? How long will she be left to lie there before you realise that you can't run an ambulance service with no staff left?

Duuuh she’ll go private, her mum ain’t going to no lowly NHS hospital with their scummy public service workers. All those nurses are interested in is their pension!

So discourage people from taking care of themselves? someone spraining their ankle out jogging should pay for insurance even though over time, they are far less likely to be a burden on the NHS compared to someone who leads a sedentary life style... mmmm

Yes AE is sometimes used inappropriately but a cut finger covers everything from a small cut needing a plaster to slicing into bone, a bang on the head may be very serious.... build more MIUs ?

UK has bi lateral healthcare treaties.. GHIC card... others should pay and do in all but emergencies before treatment.

People on average earnings cannot afford more taxes but if your calling for the wealthy to pay more on their assets and income then yes they should.

A good pension in 35years doesn't pay the rent bills etc...

Whilst you re entitled to a different opinion perhaps answer the question of what society does with no functioning health service because staff have done what you suggest and have left?

Alexandra2001
I'm talking about organised sport, Football, rugby, etc, dangerous sports, parachuting etc,
that’s why we need someone at the door, you don’t need A&E yes you do type of thing,
others should pay but do they, from outside of Europe, do we actually invoice other countries for work provided by the NHS?
paying more taxes would help towards a better Health care system and finance better pay,
you never did answer my question, how come the other countries can pay more for their staff, how is it funded?
not everyone will leave, they know they have a good job with pay and in job benefits

GneissGuysFinishLast
I don’t know where you got the impression that I’m wealthy, I earn less than the striking Nurses,
FYI my mothers has passed away

@Alexandra2001
please give me your solution for a proper functioning NHS, please don’t say give it more money, it’s like a bottom less pit, it just absorbs money

GneissGuysFinishLast
i really think you need to do a bit of reading up on your pension, the pension pot is not related to your life expectancy, it a figure based on payments in pot growth, employers contributions,
if you retire at 67, and your life expectancy is an average of 80 for women, the whole pot doesn’t get divided by 13 years, it depends on many numerous things
you do realise that 80 is only an average, you could live longer or die earlier

Staff retention has to be addressed.. as i said earlier madness to train staff then see them leave.
Pay cannot be allowed to fall even further behind.... so yes a 10% rise, if 10% can be found 12.1m pensioners, many of whom are very wealthy, then 10% can be found for front line NHS staff.

We should also allow visa free, EU healthcare staff to come and settle here too, we shouldn't be taking nurses etc from 3rd world countries.

We need to get back to pre pandemic levels of service and waiting lists before we can look at reform... yes we do need to look at how other countries fund healthcare but we cannot hide the fact that historically the NHS got 4% of GDP but from 2010 to 2020 got approx 1 to 2%.

Social care needs to come under the umbrella of the NHS, that way SC staff get the T&Cs and pay of NHS workers..... paying skilled staff 10.50ph is not sustainable and without SC, NHS becomes blocked.

Reform will take a decade plus... so needs x party support and min funding levels for 20 plus years but atm both parties have very different views of the NHS.

I'm talking about organised sport, Football, rugby, etc, dangerous sports, parachuting etc that’s why we need someone at the door, you don’t need A&E yes you do type of thing,

OK i'll go with that but the costs to the NHS by obesity, alcohol and smoking is far more than organised sport injuries..... so how do we make sure people who abuse their bodies, pay as well?

How can someone make an instant assessment on a person who has had a bang on the head?
AE do triage right now.... the person with their femur sticking out of their jeans will be seen very quickly.... someone with a split lip will possibly wait many hours.

The problem is that once emergency treatment given, the very poorly have no where to go........

At home care packages (4 daily visits) for Cornish residents have a min 6 week wait, which means those people stay in hospital/nursing homes or community hospitals when they should be at home.

@Alexandra2001
but how can the NHS compete with higher wages and a better lifestyle in other countries ( Australia, America etc ) that’s why we appeal to 3rd world countries,
what’s wrong with working visas, I’m sure your daughter had to get one,
There are many different ideas for the NHS put it’s like a sacred cow, everyone is frightened to say anything bad about it, so it keeps getting worse,
As you say we are will take many decades to reform it, governments only look forward to the next election,
I sure people wouldn’t believe some of the prices we have to pay for stuff in the NHS even on a stationary level, procurement needs addressing and fast

@Alexandra2001
is that where we have to be more draconian, you don’t help yourself, we will not help you, when the NHS was set up, I sure that it never imagined the levels of obesity, Alcoholism, smoking, let alone the existing population levels,
People are living longer but not necessarily healthier,
We were going to have a NI increase to help fund social care, but it was scrapped,
if we want better services we are going to have to pay one way or another,
giving a 10% pay rise will not shorten the waiting lists or help with bed blocking,
someone with a split lip should be turned away from A&E

If you are injured in a parachuting accident I don’t think you are going to need the NHS 😬

Girlswithgoodbodieslikeboyswithferarris
never heard of a broken leg, legs, arms, back etc

Thank you for explaining life expectancy, I had absolutely no idea they weren’t going to come and execute me on my 78th birthday. That’s a massive relief!

And of course they use life expectancy to calculate how much of a pension pot you need on an annuity scheme. How else do they arrive at the figure? 50% of people will get out less than they should, and 50% will get out more. The whole pension system is a mess because of increases in life expectancy.

No, never - what are they?

Third world countries is an outdated term. You shouldn’t use it.