To wonder how the strikes will end?

[Wingingit11]

This isn’t a thread about whether you agree with strikes as a concept or not (there have been soooo many) but to question how you think the strikes will end?! To me, the longer they go on, the less likely there is to be movement on either side ?

In the real world? What is the real world?

And no, I wouldn’t. That’s based on me living 20 years beyond retirement age, which may be the case in your leafy suburb of Surrey, but is not the case for us who live in working class areas. I can expect 10 years.

Do you work in finance or in pensions?

I don’t, so I’ll leave it to you to educate me, assuming that you do.

You’re still completely avoiding the point.
Even if someone gets a huge pension, it doesn’t justify poor working conditions which are unsafe for everyone. Having an amazing retirement would not make a gradually reducing salary, along with those unsafe working conditions, okay. If it did everyone would be signing up to work in the public sector, including YOU

You don’t see how you are contradicting yourself:

-People shouldn’t strike, they should resign
-You don’t seem to care if the public sector has even fewer employees but fail to have an answer for that eventuality
-But they shouldn’t be complaining anyway because the salary is fine, and even if it’s not, the pension makes up for it.
-People in the public sector are better off because they have a better pension, yet you don’t choose to work in the public sector for some reason.
-The people striking don’t care about you. But at the same time they do, otherwise they wouldn’t do the job in the first place.

Shall I continue or do you fancy doing some actual thinking?

GneissGuysFinishLast
the private sector,
yes you would, pension pot of £500,000 is needed for a annuity of £26,000

So if the private sector is “real” then what is the public sector?

How are you arriving at that figure you keep parroting on about?

How’s your pension pot looking?

Yes it’s up to the government to fix public services. Therefore, they can give a decent pay settlement in order to stop people leaving. I’m glad we agree. Or..,What would you state as an alternative??

DontStopMeNow7
what you want top pay good working conditions and excellent in job benefits, the main reason that the vast majority work in the public sector is not because the care about people,
pits up to the government to sort out the public sector, not mine,

GneissGuysFinishLast
I and probably the vast majority of the public will have a pension like you, still we are not on strike

DontStopMeNow7
maybe we could all have a sensible debate about the NHS and what should happen to it in the future, because keep chucking endless amounts of money at it is not working

There will likely be a compromise of sorts - Strikers can't go on for ever but they won't lose their jobs. The govt will fudge it - but there'll be concessions. There'll be much face-saving.

Then the likely response will be future - proofing. Just as they did with energy, miners, car production, printing, dockers. Outsource, relocate, privatise, modernise. That way the economy can get moving again - and the government protects itself from being held to ransom.

If you remember previous periods - what happened then? The govt gave in if they had to - but then dismantled the industry. It took years for people to recover from the damage, (small businesses, satellite businesses, individuals, families, towns, whole industries).

It did lead to social change though - not always in the way people expected - but it did. And some of it was for the better - although some of it possibly wasn't. A matter of opinion.

There isn't as much support as people think - but again it's not something people like to say because it's not "cool". So they'll say "Yay we support the NHS" and beep their horn and bathe in the approval of their mates. But they are fucking furious and frightened when yet again their hospital appointment is cancelled or it costs them £60 in cabs to get to work where they earn £75. (And if they don't go in sooner or later they'll lose the job anyway).

So that's how I think it will end. But I don't know any better than anyone else.

Everyone wants decent pay, reasonable working conditions and a decent pension. Why do you have a problem with that?

You have said that people enter serving professions because they care about others. Now you imply it is because we don’t. Make up your mind! So why do you think people enter a caring profession then?

Your answer to the strikes is for people to leave rather than striking, and then it’s up to the government to sort it out…completely ignoring the fact they could avoid the whole issue by negotiating a pay deal.

If it’s up to the government to sort out the public sector, why have any opinion on it at all?
You are extremely opinionated considering how little you are willing to think things through and back up your arguments with any kind of logic.

It’s the definition of pure arrogance.

@Unphased basically doesn’t have any ideas bar ‘they should resign’ (and a weird obsession with pensions. Which many of us won’t see if NHS falls to pieces due to lack of staff).
She’s probably not even got a job. She’s probably sitting at home in her filthy underwear, smoking and picking her nose and typing the same old shit over and over again. Don’t engage with her anymore.

Yes, I agree. Please do start this debate by stating what you think should happen to the NHS.

?

Oh - so our pensions are super good, but actually the private sector are like ours - so also good?
But it’s fine because you aren’t on strike?

Except we aren’t on strike about our pensions anyway, so your entire chain of thought (which reads like a fever dream, by the way) is largely irrelevant.

Again, please use your advanced knowledge of pensions to explain how you arrived at the figure that £26k for 10 years is somehow £500k. I’m curious.

I have assumed this is a man. (Don’t mob me MN and yes I could be wrong).

Im genuinely interested to hear the answers to my questions. But, yes, if I still don’t get any, I will assume this person is just a biased, unthinking bigot.

The problem is, what was an interesting thread has just descended into squabbling.

I’m not finance at all but to be fair that does tally with my understanding of what I’d have to get to too (which I very definitely won’t!)

Actually just ran a pensions calculator and comes up at £433k

Well I don’t think it is that interesting actually. I think it’s bloody depressing to think that no one cares and nothing will change after my third day standing in the cold on the Pickett line.
but if you think it’s really interesting then go ahead.

Whatever the figure is, it doesn’t make everything else in the public sector okay.

I couldn’t care less about my pension right now. I’m chronically ill after contracting covid at work and have debts up to my eyeballs from nursing school. I am also burnt out from nursing critically ill patients.

I chose my profession because I deeply care about other people, not because I want a good pension. I have opted out of it in order to survive the cost of living.

Its one thing for people to oppose the right to strike. It’s really something else when they try to make out we are selfish. It’s icing on the cake to have very little logic to back up an opinion.

Uncaring is one thing.
Stupid, bigoted and uncaring is really pushing the boat out.

It’s not interesting now it’s just two people arguing.

Plenty of people care: there is support on this thread. Not everyone thinks the strikes will work, though. That doesn’t mean no one cares about them.

Yep I’m getting a bit lost in the arguments! Some thought provoking comments re the politics of it all - I’m neutral on strikes so always good to hear both sides (that’s the point of these forums right…)

I’m just trying to challenge an opposing view. I was interested to see if someone who thought differently to me has any logic to their reasoning, that’s all.

I don’t enjoy doing it but I’m just so fed up with comments like this. I’ll leave it to everyone else to continue with more interesting parts of the conversation :-)

DontStopMeNow7,
No I’m not man, if your allowed to say that nowadays,
I think some of the NHS treatments should not be free, certain activities should have compulsory medical insurance, sports etc, Car insurance should carry a percentage of medical insurance, Unhealthy lifestyles should somehow be penalised, Pay more taxes for a better social care, foreign travellers must pay for NHS use, A&E should only be used in an A&E, not for a cut finger, bump to the head etc,

I do support nurses striking but I do feel a little envious. I can't strike. I am a carer.

I'm paid less than £70 a week for 24/7 on call care and about 19/20 hours worth of care a day

caramac04
It’s a crown jewel to the people

No it really isn't.

Look at the thread on private dentistry. People may be dissatisfied with what they're getting with the NHS currently but the alternative is potentially far far worse and a kin to what we're all experiencing currently with private dentistry.