To ask for help- husband witnessed a death

[bingbangbongding]

Hi all,

Need help.

Husband was leaving work today and found a colleague dead in his car. He was about 50, was still warm. He asked passers by for help but no one would help him. Everyone had left work.

He called 999 and they got him to drag this man out of the car and perform CPR even though he said he was dead. It didn't work.

The ambulance and police arrived and the ambulance worked on him for a while. Police dismissed him immediately (didn't even want his details which I thought was weird).

He's absolutely shaken and has decided to get quite drunk (understandable).

Has anyone been through this?

How can I support him? I'm terrified he's going to get PTSD or something.

Friends of mine (mother and daughter) saw an older lady fall to the ground in front of them. They're both care workers, so well trained in first aid, an actual doctor happened to be passing by and hurried over, and there was still nothing any of them could do- it was a massive heart attack. I don't think CPR works very often at all ☹.

CPR success rates are very low - less than 10% I think (my children are both hospital doctors and this is something that's been discussed in the past) and really needs to be administered immediately and correctly. He deserves a pat on the back for at least noticing and trying to do something. I always think there is a gift to be found in these strange life events - look for that - whatever it may be - be could take away something positive from this that possibly he might never have gained unless this had happened.

Thank you all for the suggestions. I didn't know about being able to contact British Heart Foundation or the recussitation officers at hospital.

He's not massively talky normally and he has rabbited on at me all night so I know he is in shock.

I won't push him or anything but if he's open to suggestions in a few days I'll let him know about it.

Thank you again.

Just to add OP, please don’t assume he is traumatised. I’m not saying you would, but some of the most unhelpful comments I’ve had after dealing with deaths at work have been “that must be so traumatising”, “I couldn’t deal with doing that”, “I’d not stop crying if that were me” or words to that effect.

I know people mean well, they’re trying to be sympathetic. But often, as humans, even though these scenarios are upsetting, we can deal with these things quite well. It can make us feel less of a human if we have been able to cope with the experience and have people asking “aren’t you traumatised?!”.

Just be careful with the wording you use. Don’t question too much. Be there to listen. It may be upsetting to listen to, but try not to project those feelings onto your husband if he is after today feeling OK about it.

Actually counselling straight after an incident like that has been found to be harmful. Stress debriefing is harmful too. I would wait it out and see if he develops any ptsd symptoms or struggles to get over the incident before jumping straight into counselling etc. Wait at least 6 months.

Get him an appointment with a psychologist specializing in trauma quickly. Pay out of pocket if you have to in order to make it happen.

I saw a man get dismembered by a vehicle and prompt attention from a psychologist helped minimize the damage, though I still have nightmares about it sometimes.

Don't dive straight into counselling, there's some evidence it can actually make PTSD more likely. A debrief can be useful, but a chat with a mate over a pint is often just as good as something more official. I remember a few years ago reading a pretty convincing study that playing games like tetris soon after a traumatic event can make the development of PTSD less likely (though not clear if it's because it distracts the mind from ruminating too much and thus overreplaying events and retraumatising, or whether the type of eye movements may have an EMDR-like effect). Absolutely agree that if he did develop PTSD, then EMDR can really help.

I just wanted to add a recommendation for the British Heart Foundation website. I had to perform CPR at work a few months ago and came across the BHF website amidst some stressful, v unhelpful googling!

I just used their live chat function and spoke to a cardiac nurse (mine was called Jayne - she was so helpful and comforting I remember this about 4 months later!). There were some things the 999 operator had said I didn’t understand and she explained them to me. She explained what a noise the man made that I found distressing was. She explained stats and the reasons behind them.

The man I was with thankfully lived, but the weeks when he was in the ICU were awful. I thought about the image of what I thought was a dead body very often. Even now I know he was OK I still find it a distressing memory, although I do think of it less.

Time will heal your husband. As others have said, be there to listen to however much he wants to talk about.

He did a good, good thing today.

That’s awful. I’m so sorry x

Not the same but a number of years ago I walked past the scene of a horrible accident that had just happened, a woman had been hit by a lorry and I saw her legs sticking out from under it. I was tearful and upset for a few days but then I was OK. Just look at we him and let him talk about it and hopefully once the shock passes he’ll be OK. If his work have EAP then he could access that.

I witnessed the lady in the bed opposite me in hospital dying very unexpectedly. It was very traumatic as the crash team were called and you could hear everything. They pulled the curtains to but in all the commotion they kept flapping open. I will never forget the “help me” look in her eyes - staring straight at me. Nothing can prepare you for something like that. Even the nurses were in tears.

A few weeks afterwards I was having some severe anxiety around not being able to do anything to help someone in that situation, plus also haunting thoughts that it would happen to me. The GP was fairly dismissive to be fair. She said to wait another eight weeks and get back to her if I was still feeling that way.

A few weeks later the feelings did start to subside. I guess your brain needs time to properly process what you’ve witnessed.

Your husband did a great thing today. Listen to him if he needs to talk and give it time.

When I was much younger the car in front of us hit a pedestrian outside a pub. It was a really nasty accident and I had had quite a bit to drink but no one else was prepared to help and I had had full first aid training. I have no idea whether the gentleman I gave CPR to survived or not - after the ambulance arrived I was dismissed (rightly so).
It took a long time to get past it mentally and I still think of him and his distraught girlfriend often. The only way I can/could process it is that no one else was prepared to help and I did everything I’d been trained to do.
Your husband has done a wonderful, selfless thing today - it shows that he is a truly good human - lots of other people would have walked by.
Remind him that it’s totally OK to be utterly flummoxed for as long as it takes. It will always be there, it just gets easier to understand your position within the situation.

That is utterly horrific, the police surely should arrange for a witness to be checked on and supported?!

My husband witnessed a suicide and the immediate aftermath, he was completely traumatised. He needed a lot of support at home and had some counselling to help him to process it all. He has to arrange this himself though.

He wiill get through it with the right help and support

Tetris to reduce the risk of developing PTSD

But as PPs have said, don't assume that Dh will be affected to this degree. If you believe it will happen, you're more likely to make it happen. Allow DH to process the event in his own way and his own time. Only suggest an intervention if it really seems that it is having a longer term impact on his MH. He won't get over it immediately, but there's no rule for how long it might take. Let him talk, go for walks, whatever he needs to do.

One thing that might make it a bit easier for him is that the victim was clearly dead when DH found him. The CPR had no chance of resuscitating him, so DH doesn't need to feel guilty that he couldn't bring him back.

I'm a doctor, so I have seen many deaths. Most were expected, and something I could cope with.

Over covid that changed and I got PTSD, particularly relating to one horrific resuscitation scenario.

I am sharing this to say that PTSD is not inevitable, but it very much depends on the scenario. PTSD can also be treated, but it takes time.

A debrief is helpful, if he can arrange it.

I totally get that- thanks for reminding me.

At the minute I'm just listening. He's repeating the chain of events over and over and he's doing it with times in his head. Looking at the time he called the ambulance.

He's quite stressed because he couldn't get his phone to work. It was working, but because of Bluetooth it was playing the call in the car and he was a few cars down. He's claiming he 'lost a minute' because of that. He's also worrying that because he didn't realise he was dead he spent a while banging on the window and assuming he was drunk and passed out.

I'm trying to reassure him and telling him his instincts are totally natural, no one would expect the person to be dead. You would naturally assume a person in a car drooling was drunk. He acted normally.

I have had 2 episodes of ptsd from traumatic events including trying to resuscitate the dead in shit circumstances. I was told, and did find, that getting into talking therapy asap after the event massively reduces the risk of developing ptsd. I probably avoided another couple of episodes from early therapy.
Let him talk and really listen and engage.

I've been second to a scene. The first perosn called ambulance but didn't know first aid so we did it with my dad. When ambulance came we were dismissed and no details asked other than what type of CPR. So no perosnal details. Next day there was a candle so I assume he had passed. It wasn't traumatic. Just saying that him being shaked doesn't mean he will be traumatised/ptsd. Just be there for hin if he wants to talk and observe. If it looks like he needs support his job should have resources or contacting gp office for resources in the local area.

I would definitely get him counselling, I have been in a similar situation and thought I could handle it but it helped me a great deal. Sending you both strength

The rate of cpr that is successful in the community is 12% if that's helpful for him

I think you're doing exactly the right things - be there for him, hug him, if he wants to talk then listen and help him see that he did a good job given what he knew at the time. And if he wants distracting from it that's fine too.

There is a decent chance that he will be fine after a few weeks. The fact that the was physically able to act to help, even though it was unsuccessful, is a big protective factor from PTSD. PTSD more usually forms when you're trapped 'frozen' in a traumatic situation and can't do anything.

Hi I feel I drove past this yesterday morning and it looked really awful.
my thoughts have been with all involved since.
the fact that your husband actually stopped and helped is a massive deal, unfortunately it’s going to take a while and maybe even some counselling. All the best x

Your husband is a good, brave man. Awful that he had to deal with this tragedy alone, but he showed love and care to someone possibly in their last moments. I know I would be eternally grateful if this happened to me or someone I loved. I have been with many people as they died, but once found a client dead in a pool of blood and was instructed to commence CPR. Truly awful-I was lucky that paramedics arrived as I was about to start and they took over. Feeling physically shaken and going over the sequence of events is normal, to you both.

He handled the incident really well.
Keep praising him for this.

Those women behaved correctly.
I wouldn't be drawn into such a situation and would and have warned my daughter to not ever be distracted by emergencies. Sorry!

He did all he could which will be a comfort to the family.

Keep praising his efforts.

40 years ago my friend and i were walking and witnessed a car spinning out of control and a body of a girl shoot out through the window and was killed instantly. When the car stopped he got out and started running away from the smoking car.
We ran over but other adults pushed us back.
40 years later it is clear as day.
He was a drunk driver on his way to a 21st party.
She was cold sober and had volunteered to look after him🙄.
Truly heartbreaking.
We knew her brother.

Let him piece together the events again and again. It might feel like he gets it but he'll need to keep doing it. It needs to end for him. It can't end well for his colleague but he needs to understand his bit properly.

Clinical psychologist here. I'm very sorry that your husband has been through this terrible experience but please do not rush him into counselling/psychological debriefing. This has been shown to make things worse and it is stated by the NICE guidelines that counselling in the immediate aftermath of a trauma should not occur. The vast majority of people who experience a trauma do not go on to develop PTSD and a 'watch and wait' approach is recommend for the first month. If, during this time, your husband develop disruptive trauma symptoms such as intrusive thoughts, flashbacks, nightmares, anxiety on exposure to reminders of the trauma, loss of interest in usual activities etc, that do not improve with time, specific psychological interventions can be sought (not general counselling though) to prevent the development of PTSD. If the symptoms persist after a month, he should seek treatment for PTSD - again, not generally counselling - but trauma-focussed PTSD or EMDR. In the next days/weeks it will be quite normal for him to think about it a lot and want to talk about it. This is healthy processing and should be supported. He should also aim to continue with his usual routines.