I think mumsnet is no longer fit for purpose in the spirit it was meant to be.

[Tolstoysbackpack]

I’m wondering if anyone feels the same as me. It’s called ‘Mumsnet’ which makes you believe it’s a supportive place and a place to go for advice or give advice. Some tough love. It’s great because it’s anonymous. I think you have to take the OP in good faith. But I think a lot of threads now are not. I think the balance has tipped from a minority of arseholes being nasty to a majority.

the starting point seems to be for a lot of people that reply to OP’s is to catch them
out, purposefully misunderstand, find some gotcha flaw in their OP to exploit as if they are interviewing a suspect, give unsolicited stupid legal or medical advice and believe their word is important and must be heard, compare their circumstances to the OP’s which I can only interpret as trying to show off that their situation is better, stupid examples, obsessed with money and leafy areas, if you don’t have family to help in an emergency why don’t you? You loser, if it were me I would….., I can’t believe you don’t drive, get a better job. Why don’t you go private? It’s people like you that have the NHS on their knees. What is your DH doing? Mine would race to me and pick me up in his beefy loving arms and if he didn’t I would LTB, I don’t think you are telling the full story here OP. I don’t understand your OP? (When any adult can kind of get the gist) and they asking questions just to cause a bit of drama.

some people really do ask for help and they get ripped to spreads. What is even more insulting that a lot of these people don’t bother to read the thread, they just are compelled to reply. They don’t even bother to look if their comment had been answered, it’s like the internet equivalent of perpetuating kicking someone while they are payed on the ground. And they don’t care. A lot of these people also claim to be incredibly affluent, educated and in important jobs.

I used to use this website a lot, I have found amusement and good advice. I thought it was a positive place. I don’t understand why people feel compelled to fuck it up. If you don’t have anything to say just move on. No one is asking you personally, and how arrogant to assume they are.

in a couple of hundred years when we are all dead and gone I wonder what historians will make of us. How they will interpret a website that was positive turned so cruel.

Hi,
no I don’t think “why isn’t everyone nice?”
bit mumsnet makes money by calling it’s self mumsnet.
this is its aim

What is the purpose of Mumsnet?
Our aim is to:

Make parents' lives easier by pooling knowledge, advice and support. We try, as far as possible to let the conversation flow and not to over-moderate. Mumsnet is a site for grown-ups.

can you honestly say, hand on heart that this aim is being upheld? It’s an interesting concept they own the website but of course they shouldn’t analyse every aspect of a thread. But it’s true that people should act responsibly on the internet as they do in their daily lives. It’s no excuse. Treat other people as you would like to be treated.

what do you think the spirit of mumsnet is?

From the "General Ps & Qs" in the Talk Guidelines

"We'd appreciate it if you could use the same courtesy when posting messages on Talk as you would use when speaking to someone face to face. Please do bear in mind how difficult this parenting business can be, and if there's one thing all of us could do with, it's some moral support."

Well it's no longer a site just for parents.

what do you think the spirit of mumsnet is?
I think it's a lot of different things - AIBU is different from a lot of the other talk topics. If you're asking if you're being unreasonable that's going to invite adverse commentary if people think you are (being unreasonable).

We try, as far as possible to let the conversation flow and not to over-moderate. Mumsnet is a site for grown-ups.
My interpretation of that is not "everyone has to be nice all the time"

Lots of talk topics offer supportive dialogue - I've posted on many and received help - but I wouldn't necessarily expect that if I was using AIBU to argue about politics for example.

I don't agree with your desire for a nicey-nicey annodyne world on here - especially not in AIBU - part of the appeal is the forthright opinions. That's just my opinion though.

I don't think you are right that the site has lost its way, at all.

The only change I would make is this:

Make posters' lives easier by pooling knowledge, advice and support. We try, as far as possible to let the conversation flow and not to over-moderate. Mumsnet is a site for grown-ups.

... because, as has been pointed out, it's not just parents who use Mumsnet any more, and we're not all, always seeking advice about parental matters.

Other than that, I think this aim is pretty well delivered.

Yes, there are going to be posts/posters that are less than pleasant. Some deliberately so (especially as the site is now a clear target for trolls with varying agendas), many simply because of misunderstandings or lack of comprehension. But where they cross the line - or where WE believe they cross the line, then it's up to us to report them, and let MNHQ deal with it.

On the whole the moderation team are pretty good about getting the balance right, so that the conversation does flow. But they're only human, and moderating often contentious threads can be a subjective process, not always an objective one, and so not always easy to get right. And, of course, we may not always agree with their decisions!

I remember that someone asked for opinion on a selection of baby names

I said they sounded a bit like disease names

mumsnet deleted

seriously? Ok so what I said wasn’t positive towards the name but the op asked for opinions, I gave mine, someone at mumsnet HQ obviously had a child named one of the listed names, did t like my comment… and deleted it. 🙄

Maybe there should be a subforum where only happy thoughts are allowed.

Shudder

I’d be giving that one a wide berth.

I don’t need completely anonymous mumsnetters to help me with happy thoughts!

... and there are plenty of subs where you can already get that!

I hate the idea that we have to #BeKind or 'play nice'. Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting or endorsing unpleasant or unkind posts - but we should be able to post the way we want to, as long as it's within Talk Guidelines

Sorry - topics not subs. This isn't reddit!

I agree to an extent - some recent posts have really had me scratching my head about the types of people who seem to swarm on certain threads.

The ‘think of the poor’ men types have always been around but those who pile on a light hearted thread determined to shut it down or who seem completely affronted by the thought that there is more than one way to react / live a life than theirs, seem not only more frequent but more determined to berate people into submission as they have to be right.

There are many who seem to relish the opportunity to be rude and hectoring and downright cunty to others as a power trip with no consequences.

I think it’s likely these are people who back in the day would have been the school gate mafia / mean girls whose time has passed, so coming on a forum to be a dick is all that’s left and that kind of behaviour does seem to be contagious when the social leveller of a smack in the mouth is off the table.

I’n very glad to have found good support in the dating and peri meno boards but I thank my lucky stars I don’t know people from some of the other boards in real life.

But it’s true that people should act responsibly on the internet as they do in their daily lives. It’s no excuse. Treat other people as you would like to be treated

Mumsnet is a site for grown ups though. Who in life has not experienced a grown up being crap to another grown up? It's just people, it just happens. We are all responsible for ourselves, and for making sure we're in places/around people who make us happy. Mumsnet isn't just for mums and Apple isn't an apple. Pepsi isn't a peptic acid medicine anymore, but there's little point in whinging that things aren't what they used to be, or aren't meeting their aims. They are aims, not guarantees, and things change. All our opinions are valid, @Tolstoysbackpack , but essentially, they also don't matter. Nobody really cares what you think of MN. Nobody really cares what I think of MN. And that's fine. Recognising that we don't matter is the wisdom that's missing from your posts.

Recognising that we don't matter is the wisdom that's missing from your posts.

Love this @Watchkeys

I don’t believe it. Just checked out the thread where my post was deleted

and it was bloomin well pulled because the Op was a PBP

so I’m deleted for giving my genuine opinion (the names did sound like diseases to me) but mumsnet didn’t bother to check out the OP and it ran on for hours after my post deleted

Treat other people as you would like to be treated

ok. How I “would like to be treated” on an anonymous chat forum is very very different to how I “would like to be treated” in RL by non completely anonymous people.

Odd some people regard an anonymous chat forum as being the same as RL and engaging with real people

The trouble is that, sometimes being 'too nice' doesn't make lives easier. I'd argue that sometimes you NEED to firmly disagree in order to get a point across about where a problem lies, in order to make someone's life easier.

There seems to be this bullshit that 'being nice' and agreeing is the only way to improve life. That's nonsense. Sometimes it's necessary to robustly challenge someone.

The same thing goes through out society. Differences of opinion are healthy. Not always getting on, is a good thing not a bad one.

As a society we'd be better off recognising this.

Instead we've got into the habit of thinking that people who have different opinions are 'attacking' someone rather than challenging them. I do think you sometimes have to harsh with someone for them to realise that they are their own worst enemy and they need to wake up to it. If I'm harsh with people it is 99.9% of the time we'll intentioned that I think someone needs a rocket up their backside to change the direction of where they are going. A softly softly approach often isn't enough in my opinion for many of the problems people have.

What's key for me is the ability to be honest and to share opinions about what's 'healthy and normal' rather than being a brainless people pleaser which I do feel that many of those complaining would prefer everyone else was.

I agree with this, also the "don't judge" Some posters are terrible, particularly when they post AIBU, 99% say yes and they continue to argue about it

It also irks me when posters complain that 'you wouldn't say that in real life, would you?'. Well, no. That's part of the joy of online communication. We don't have to dodge around trying to say something we feel might be unpalatable. Or worse, even ignoring the issue and simply stating platitudes! (You only have to see the number of 'wet lettuce' threads on here, with so many posters/women saying how they hate confrontation to realise that in real life so much never gets said, or is said in such a mangled way that it misses being truly understood).

Far better to be able to say what you think in a more direct way. It's not 'hiding behind a keyboard'. It's about giving genuine advice that is clear.

(Which does not excuse, of course, being deliberately nasty, provocative or rude).

^ 100% agree - the whole point of being online is that it's different.

I reckon a lot of mumsnetters pour emotional support and kindness in to mumsnet threads.

but don’t translate that in to RL because they are too bloomin focussed on supporting anonymous posters in the Relationships forum!

oh and the irony of those posters that are pouring support and kindness on to the OP, and then behaving like an alley cat when anyone doesn’t tow the line and instead chooses to question or doubt the OP. I suspect that is much more in keeping with their real life persona! 😂

There is a gulf between this nonsense that is “Be Kind” in the virtual world on sites such as mumsnet

and being kind (small k!) in real life

I really don’t give much of a hoot about the former, but the latter underpins how I choose to live life

Thanks to tabloids, social media and lockdown/increased Internet use in general, AIBU has attracted a lot of people who used to browse AITA on Reddit... And well, you know what kind of website Reddit is. I got to this site from one of those links myself. I stayed because even though it can be quite nasty it's still miles better than other forums like Reddit.

How do you know which posters came from Reddit?

Presumably they refer to those sites in their posts?

I agree with you OP, I posted something on AIBU a while back and many of the responses I received were just plain abusive. I got called everything you could think of - idiot, twat, dense, a cunt, then there was comments about my children (thread was nothing to do with them). It was horrific. If you admit any wrongdoing of any kind people seem to jump on it, and ignore the actual question being asked, that was my experience at least. 'Oh you did this so you must be the type of person who also does this...', 'if you do this then I assume your children are....' and so on. When I tried to reiterate I was sorry for the wrongdoing I had already admitted to, I had lots of 'you're not sorry enough' and 'but you don't seem sorry', 'I don't believe you'.

It got to the point where it was so toxic, I asked for the thread to be deleted. Not because I didn't like the responses, I can take a few tough love/brutal comments, but the abuse was too much.

I agree that the internet is a different place, anonymity should be part of that to some extent. But I do think when you post abusive things you should have anonymity removed, you should be identifiable to someone who can report you. There should be a consequence to it. The affect of these abusive comments can be huge, it can really impact the person on the receiving end. I have seen this first hand and it can be really quite heartbreaking. It shouldn't be ok to do that to anyone.