Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What is a woman?

349 replies

smileladiesplease · 02/02/2023 21:09

Rishi tonight on talk TV

piers 'what is a woman?'

Rishi 'an adult human female!'

Fffsssss Starmer wake the bastard fuck up!!!!!!!

Seriously now read the bloody room!!!!! I want to vote Labour again please

OP posts:
KimberleyClark · 03/02/2023 21:15

ChangedmynameagainforChristmas · 03/02/2023 14:20

A woman gives birth to live young. A wo-man. She has a womb. Isn't that the better definition? A man cannot be a woman as he does not have a womb. Ask Julian Clary - he will tell you.

Some women are born without a womb. So according to your definition they are not women.

lifeturnsonadime · 03/02/2023 21:22

ilovesooty · 03/02/2023 20:46

Because in many constituencies not making an active choice for the party most likely to dislodge the sitting Tory is in effect a vote for the Conservative party.

And removing this government from office is my priority.

So women's rights is a secondary issue for you.

That's fine.

Just own what you are voting for.

Metabigot · 03/02/2023 21:23

KimberleyClark · 03/02/2023 21:15

Some women are born without a womb. So according to your definition they are not women.

Yeah and humans aren't bipedal either

lifeturnsonadime · 03/02/2023 21:25

The only place I ever see this issue being discussed is here, and I think Mumsnet can give you a pretty skewered view of how much this matters to many people.

You clearly don't talk to the women I talk to irl.

Most women I know do give a fuck about women's rights.

Especially once they hear the arguments which many attempt to silence for reasons that are quite obvious.

StarsSand · 03/02/2023 21:52

ChangedmynameagainforChristmas · 03/02/2023 14:20

A woman gives birth to live young. A wo-man. She has a womb. Isn't that the better definition? A man cannot be a woman as he does not have a womb. Ask Julian Clary - he will tell you.

Not all women give birth.

Not all women give birth to 'live' young.

Not all women have wombs.

This is such nonsense.

ilovesooty · 03/02/2023 21:54

lifeturnsonadime · 03/02/2023 21:22

So women's rights is a secondary issue for you.

That's fine.

Just own what you are voting for.

I've said that the most important thing to me is to get the government out. The definition of a woman comes lower in my priorities. Quite prepared to own that.

PennyToffee · 03/02/2023 21:58

ilovesooty · 03/02/2023 21:54

I've said that the most important thing to me is to get the government out. The definition of a woman comes lower in my priorities. Quite prepared to own that.

Same. But then I don't have the MC privilege of only caring about this issue.

Walkinmeshoes · 03/02/2023 22:05

@OneTC
The only place I ever see this issue being discussed is here, and I think Mumsnet can give you a pretty skewered view of how much this matters to many people. Most people I know either don't give a fuck or actively support the trans women are women view and it totally blows my mind that so few people seem to have actually thought about it, so I come here to read about other people's views on it. The only really GC person I know is another bloke, none of our women friends care.
Absolutely agree. I read the comments about India Willoughby's appearance on BBC QT on another thread. It was largely mocking her and yet on a different SM site the comments were mostly sympathetic and actually very critical of Ella Whelan- and I'm not talking about blue haired millennial brigade but ordinary people of all ages and backgrounds. I don't think it's as cut and dry as posters on here like to think.

lifeturnsonadime · 03/02/2023 22:08

. I don't think it's as cut and dry as posters on here like to think.

Which part?

Do you think that Women are something other than 'adult human females? '

Do you think that men who say they are women, are women?

Do you think that women should ever have spaces seperate from males?

Do you think that males should be in women's refuges, sports and prisons?

Do you think that rapists should be able to identify into women's spaces ?

Nanny0gg · 03/02/2023 22:17

RocketIceLollie · 02/02/2023 22:16

Changing sex doesn't change that you are a convicted rapist. Of course they shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a female prison. You can choose to change sex but that they are still a convicted rapist. An Op doesn't change that status.

You cannot choose to 'change sex' at all.

lifeturnsonadime · 03/02/2023 22:17

PennyToffee · 03/02/2023 21:58

Same. But then I don't have the MC privilege of only caring about this issue.

The women who will be harmed by gender identity aren't MC.

It is vulnerable women who are likely to be in :

prison and rape crisis centres or in women's refuges.

Not to mention the vulnerable autistic women who have been told they might not be women and to go on a pathway of sterilisation in the name of 'gender identity'.

You clearly have an issue with MC women but genderism is a privileged belief system which does not favour WC or vulnerable women.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 03/02/2023 22:23

I'll be voting Labour still.
Rishi can get in the bin along with the rest of the Tory Party, sick of their trying to stoke up division for votes shit.

  • Tofu eating wokerati
  • Send 'em to Rwanda!

Now jumping onto trans issues /women's rights (ha, as if they're interested in women's rights) because they think it'll get them votes.

lifeturnsonadime · 03/02/2023 22:27

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 03/02/2023 22:23

I'll be voting Labour still.
Rishi can get in the bin along with the rest of the Tory Party, sick of their trying to stoke up division for votes shit.

  • Tofu eating wokerati
  • Send 'em to Rwanda!

Now jumping onto trans issues /women's rights (ha, as if they're interested in women's rights) because they think it'll get them votes.

Now jumping onto trans issues /women's rights (ha, as if they're interested in women's rights) because they think it'll get them votes

So you'll vote a party that has made it clear that it gives not a single shit about women.

if you are a woman it's like voting turkeys for Christmas.

Neither party is good for women but declaring the labour party is better for women is totally insane.

Women deserve better.

PennyToffee · 03/02/2023 22:33

lifeturnsonadime · 03/02/2023 22:17

The women who will be harmed by gender identity aren't MC.

It is vulnerable women who are likely to be in :

prison and rape crisis centres or in women's refuges.

Not to mention the vulnerable autistic women who have been told they might not be women and to go on a pathway of sterilisation in the name of 'gender identity'.

You clearly have an issue with MC women but genderism is a privileged belief system which does not favour WC or vulnerable women.

I have an issue with MC feminism. yes. Because they clearly have no clue how the Tories have fucked WC women over.

You think WC women are more likely to end up in prison? or a hostel? Why is that? Because Rishi and his mates have done fuck all to address their issues.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 03/02/2023 22:35

if you are a woman it's like voting turkeys for Christmas.
See, I feel that way about voting for the Tories.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 22:39

Look what happened when Starmer stated he was not in favour of self-identify for 16 year olds in the Scottish GRR bill. But he should stand up to their tantrums.

What is a woman?
PennyToffee · 03/02/2023 22:45

You know I read the FWR board and i do get some of it, but then they wang on about boycotting Lush or whichever company has pissed them off this week and the love for JK Rowling who is a fucking millionaire and can afford to Tweet and say what she likes and I think you have no clue about WC women and what they need. What they need the government to do for them.

Kucinghitam · 03/02/2023 22:46

4w.pub/you-meet-more-perverts-when-poor/

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 22:49

For anyone who hasn’t seen it yet, this is an important petition to Parliament to update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex “ is biological.

Rishi has said it is biological but that isn’t enough.

To read more about this petition, and consider signing and sharing it
⬇️

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

KimberleyClark · 03/02/2023 22:51

ilovesooty · 03/02/2023 21:54

I've said that the most important thing to me is to get the government out. The definition of a woman comes lower in my priorities. Quite prepared to own that.

Me too.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 03/02/2023 22:52

KimberleyClark · 03/02/2023 22:51

Me too.

and me

QueenCamilla · 03/02/2023 22:55

Oh, c'mon! "Some women are born without a womb"...

That's a condition, disability, genetic error. A DNA error in very few select cases, does not alter the definition of sex, species, etc

Humans have thumbs - one on each hand. The fact that some are born without, does not change the observed fact of humans and their thumbs.
We have brains evolutionary driven to observe and identify bodies, faces, sex, health, strength and so on. A lack of thumb (or a womb even!) I'm sure is not enough to throw us off!?

What is a woman?
Me: Adult human female. Identifiable by vulva, vagina, ovaries, womb, pitch of voice, jaw line, body fat distribution, boobs, sparce body-hair, sparce facial hair, small height, low-ish muscle mass... And so much more!

We are primed to scan, and once we scan, we know!

This would never, ever be an issue if not for some fecked up humans (scientists/doctors) surgically messing with bodies!

A man with no penis doesn't change what a woman is.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 22:56

Kucinghitam · Today 22:46
4w.pub/you-meet-more-perverts-when-poor/

Thank you, what an important article. This part stood out to me:

Women with money get harassed too!” I’m told, and I know. Because I am a woman with money now. You don’t have to tell me. And I’m not saying poor men are more likely to be perverts and paedos. I’m saying that any man, given the right set of circumstances, could be one. It’s a numbers game.

But the girls who make the rules now, they don’t see any reason why a couple of “bad apples” should prevent poor suffering homosexual men from being able to live their true authentic life in the body they deserve. They don’t believe you when you tell them that men are opportunists. Or worse, they think they know what you mean; they think about that one time at the museum.

Changing rooms with gaps between the curtain and the wall, tiny pub toilets you have to squeeze past each other, shared showering areas at the swimming pool - if these women get perved on, well they can just get in their cars and drive to a different, better place. They can sell their homes and go live somewhere not filled with desperate men and vigilante justice. They can go to the more expensive swimming pool, the one with the doors that lock. The one frequented by men with too much to lose.

QueenCamilla · 03/02/2023 22:59

The only question with any complexity is: "What is it to BE a woman?" There might be discussion there.

The observed biological sex needs absolutely no society-wide discussion. You're either right on the facts or wrong. Nothing else to speak about.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 23:17

@PennyToffee · Today 22:45
You know I read the FWR board and i do get some of it, but then they wang on about boycotting Lush or whichever company has pissed them off this week and the love for JK Rowling who is a fucking millionaire and can afford to Tweet and say what she likes and I think you have no clue about WC women and what they need. What they need the government to do for them.

I think you may not have realised this (quoted below) about JK Rowling. It is from a longer article about her philanthropy but I couldn’t quote it all.

Also, recently, she has set up, and is paying for with her own money, a rape crisis centre in Edinburgh so women who have been raped can get help in a male free space ( there are other provisions in Edinburgh for men of any identity who have been raped). Obviously the service will be for any WC who need it.

In 2000, Rowling established the Volant Charitable Trust, which uses its annual budget to combat poverty and social inequality, with a particular emphasis on women and children. Volant also funds major disaster appeals as the focus of the Trust's international support.

*“It’s much easier for certain sections of society to say. "You’ve brought this on yourself by your fecklessness; you sort it out," than to say "You’ve been a victim of circumstances" or "Hey, marriages break up…..but how are we going to help you help yourself?"^

^Her philanthropy is now unabashedly visible and involved. For example,
two books written for Comic Relief – Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them and Quidditch Through the Ages – have gone on to raise £15.7m for the fund. Rowling has said that “You have a moral responsibility when you’ve been given far more than you need, to do wise things with it and give intelligently”. Rather than passively signing large cheques, she involves herself not only in the organisation of her own charities but also in well-publicised events (such as a reading with Stephen King and John Irving in New York to raise money for AIDS and ‘Medicine Without Borders’), that increase the public and media profile of the cause she is supporting as well as raising substantial amounts of money.^

^In the last couple of years, Rowling has been almost hyper-active in her giving of her time, money and her celebrity status.
In 2006, she contributed a substantial sum towards the creation of a new Centre for Regenerative Medicine at Edinburgh University – her mother died of multiple sclerosis - and hosted a fund-raising ball with her anaesthetist husband to mark the twelfth anniversary of her mother’s death^

In the same year, Rowling went to Bucharest to highlight the use of child institutions in the region and raise support for the Children’s High-Level Group (CHLG), which was founded by her and MEP Emma Nicholson. In 2010, CHLG became Lumos Foundation which now works globally to end the institutionalisation of children, a little-known issue that affects 8 million children around the world, most who have parents but are placed in orphanages and institutions through poverty, disability, conflict and crisis. To support Lumos, Rowling auctioned one of seven handwritten and illustrated copies of The Tales of Beedle the Bard, a collection of wizarding fairy tales alluded to in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, the final book of the Harry Potter series, and raised £1.95m for the charity.

In addition, in 2015, her Harvard commencement speech from 2008 Very Good Lives was released in book form with proceeds of the sales going to support Lumos' work

After the bid, she said, “Large amounts of wealth bring a certain responsibility if you’re any kind of human being, then after you fulfil your family’s needs, you think, well how do I do some good with this?”

About Lush - did you realise Lush had been sending out breast-binders to young girls under cover so their parents wouldn’t know; and that they can cause a lot of harm to girls’ breast tissue, hurt their ribs and be bad for breathing? The fuss over Lush wasn’t for a minor reason. A lot of people end up on the FWR board because of their own family being affected.