To ask mums of 3 this?

[Tiddlywinx]

how is the Jump from2/3? Did it make you want to have 4? How’ve you coped financially? Any regrets?

2 kids here (3.5 and 1) 35 late next year. My heart yearns for another baby, I know it’s a MN taboo but I just feel that way. I have one sibling and always desperately wanted more. Big families on both sides and always was envious of that bond.

let’s get to the nitty gritty… we have an average mortgage on a 4 bed house, like many I suppose the average mortgage will increase, would want a 3 year gap, eldest would be in school and 3 year old would be on funded hrs, which covers 8:45-3;30 (£5 for lunch), so I guess would start trying when I was 34.5, after tax and deductions (protection, pension, HI, IP, CIC etc) we get around 5.3k per month. We both have 9/10 to ease childcare costs and family to help also. We wfh so would have some logistical challenges re office space, either extending for an office/ summer house cum office or kids sharing… does that feel doable? We live in a new build, so whilst bills have gone up, it seems to tap out based on usage (not minimal either) at around £220 in the coldest months (smart meter shows direct usage)

if you’ve got 3 does that feel doable on what I’ve said? Lot of nay saying around 3 I’ve found, with ‘middle child syndrome’ ‘if you have 3 you need to have 4 etc’ ‘new car’. We share a car now so would need a new car anyway, probably would lease one. Happy to receive suggestion as to what car can fit 3 seats on the back? Ideally would keep eldest rf until 6. I like the look of the Tucson

so if I did have 3 with that age gap eldest would be 5.5, middle 3 and then new born… anyone else have a similar gap? How have you found it? How was the Jump from 2/3? Our jobs are very stable and hubby is getting quite a bit of attention to move up, but based on this staying exactly as it, does that seem viable?

@BertieBotts
possibly just means the extra ferrying around with another child?
E.g. 3 sets of dental appointments (seems nearly every kid need braces now - no-one told me that could mean 6 weekly appointments for 2 years - per child - and of course consecutive years!).
Ferrying them to 3 lots of weekend sports matches in different places at slightly different times. That sort of thing.
I agree that the extra housework in itself shouldn’t be that much more - once you’re cooking, cleaning and washing for 2, you might aswell have 3.

I guess it’s very unlikely I’d be able to afford to send even my 2 to Uni and them not take a student loan / not live at home, sure I could and would help but I’d not be able to pay tuition and accommodation costs, especially when saving for retirement. But my parents didn’t do that for me, they helped but I took out student loan. Now the option id steer them to would be staying at home and degree apprenticeships especially if they didn’t know what they wanted to do. Cars would be ok as I’d get a second hand one for each of them. I’m not sure I’d encourage wasting a large sum of money on a wedding, I felt pushed to have a big wedding for my family and it’s just money down the drain would much rather give a sun towards a house deposit . But I paid for that myself with savings and my parents gave me some money toward the options, nice of course but about £3k.

i earn 40k and hubs 55k in our early 30s so I’d hope our careers would continue to progress and salaries increase. Can’t lie CoL does worry me atm, esp re mortgages

Share devices? The horror! 😀

My parents didn't buy me a car, give me a house deposit or pay for my wedding so none of that has crossed my mind as a concern. I'd expect my kids to get student loans too, and will just pay what I can towards accomodation etc depending on what I have spare at the time. We're in commuting distance of lots of universities so they can just stay at home if they need to.

And I'd much prefer to have my siblings than have had a car or a house deposit/wedding/uni paid for.

It's different if three would mean you were choosing between eating or heating but I think there's more important things in life than money.

We'll support our children through uni living costs but we won't be paying the uni fees, we'll probably chip in for weddings but won't pay for the whole thing, we'll help when they need it - acting as guarantors for rent and whatnot.

But, unforseen hardship not withstanding, I don't intend to rob them of the opportunity to stand on their own two feet.

That's something which I wouldn't change with one, three or ten. And it's not a dirty secret I'm reluctantly admitting. 😁

I do agree with you on this, I think even to pay tuition and accommodation (minimally 15k a year), pay for a wedding (roughly 20k), buy a car (let’s say 5k) give a house deposit (20k) for even one child for most people would be completely and utterly out of the question. To me living at home or and / or degree apprenticeships seem to make a lot more sense in this day and age. Luckily we live in commuting distance from several big universities, red brick, group 92 and newer universities and some big reputable companies that offer degree apprenticeships paying around 17-18, even 20k. God I wish I did that, having that sort of salary at 18 years old

@Tiddlywinx
I have 3 DCs
It's great you have a 4 bed house
You'll miss your office so I'd get two to share a bedroom as that teaches an awful lot of patience and socialising to young DCs..! And you keep your office for quite a number of years ... Then you've always option for bedroom each once they are awkward teenagers/ young adults or living with you before during or after Uni..! The ones sharing get second biggest bedroom or you'll end up with a 'favoured' older child (they usually get second biggest bedroom as they arrived first...!)

Cara haven't been a problem you don't need a 7 seater MPV
Just one wide enough for 3 car seats. I sat my 5 year old in middle smaller back seat as he was almost out of car seat (v tall) & his booster seat was narrower anyway, I managed with standard sized hatchback (full size boot)

It's very doable to have 3 DCs - only you know if your family is complete or not

I brought up my 3 DCs on my own , their dad (exH) worked away and disappeared off, so yes it's easy with two harder work with 3 but we have a wonderfully noisy lively family life.

Number three gets less organised activities as unlikely you can take all 3 to different things each night same as you did with first one, but my number three has had huge amount of attention / teasing/ from her older brother and sister who play with her or mum plays with her... I had 3 under 6.

Be warned your middle child will likely claim 'middle child syndrome' once 15 regardless of what you do. Meh, she works it though to get more

Also child number 3 may be your adventurous fearless one ...! And the most chilled ... most of my friends with 3 have a little tinker (but also v loving) 3rd as you're more relaxed... Couldn't be with our number 3 child. She was an absolute gift 💝
She gave me white hair early though... wouldn't stop legging it in her toddler years as she wanted to be like her big bro and sister...

Couldn't be without our number 3 child I meant
.. doh..!

What will happen if you have child no3 and they're autistic or disabled?

I genuinely think if you've got a good thing going now, stay with it. No one 'needs' a third child. Everyone I know with 3 certainly didn't plan it! Really tight on the middle child too (speaking from experience) I would say, don't rock the boat.

The same as I’d do if my second had additional needs in anyway I was able to, yes absolutely would change things for #1 and #2 but then wouldn’t that be similar if number 2 had additional needs, it would change #1 life.

i don’t get the no one ‘needs’ a third child thing though… technically no one ‘needs’ to have a child at all, not really… no one ‘needs’ a second either

Your DCs cut their cloth to what resources we have

None of my DCs will get £20k towards their weddings! They'll each get £1k if I can afford it and they'll be happy with that, as £20k weddings aren't necessity

Dont forget when they go to uni your Costa in house will go down (my DS accounted for 45% out food bill let alone electricity etc..!) so that helps towards the less money you get as high earners towards maintenance loan - your first DC will get £5,320 less a year than a full maintenance loan of £9500 pa for someone in lowest of incomes, based on your joint 90k a year. You don't have to have £15k ready saved for DC1 before s/he goes off to uni -it's £489 month so if you've saved half of it, you'll have £240 due to give them each month easily the cheaper food bill pocket money and phone contract etc that they'll be costing you by time they're a teenager ..!

Also remember s/he won't have to pay this part back as it's money you (parents) give towards his living expenses - not borrowed from government as student loans - so s/he'll rack up £13450 year instead of £18,850 approx a year in student loans over the 3-4 years, will save young adult DC1 £thousands more later on!

I don’t think things like money for
a wedding or house deposit and definitely “sharing devices” is a reason not to have a 3rd baby! I mean perhaps if you are already struggling to feed the family then don’t have a third. What children gain in a sibling, an actual person to love and share their life with really doesn’t compare to sharing an iPad. And tbh the larger our family of 6 has grown, the less time they spend on screens anyways..too much playing and arguing to be done!
Also, fwiw, we can more than afford to give each dc their own iPad and house deposit and pay for a wedding at some point but we won’t be doing that. They don’t need a device each, I hate devices anyways. And they can save up for a deposit themselves! And as for a wedding, they might not even get married! Or they might do it in a registry office and then go backpacking on a shoe string! Or they might elope to vegas!
I certainly don’t think denying yourself a third to pay for an imagined wedding is sensible.

I always wanted more than 2 children and after having 2 in 18 months we decided to wait until we were more financially stable. Then dh changed his mind and in the end dc1 and dc2 were 10 and 11 when dc3 was born. I found it very difficult especially as dh wasn't hands on and dc3 was non verbal until he was 7 (aspergers). Also dcs1 and 2 didn't see why they needed another sibling- they got on well and are both girls - and resented ds. I wanted him to have a sibling and had dd3 when ds was 4. She seemed to bring everyone together. They are now 31,29, 19 and 15 and are all lovely but I know life would have been much easier for dd1 and dd2 - and me -if we hadn't have had the other 2.

On £90k income you can hopefully afford £150 in savings per month to save up for 3 DCs Uni costs.

if you put away £50 per month for 3 children each for 14 years that'd be £8,800 you before adding in any accumulated interest

• at 3% pa interest rate they'll have approx £10,500 each in 14 years time. Then you only need to add small top up each month that you'll have saved without them living with you full time!

If your wages go down significantly your DCs may get full maintenance loans

I have 3, they’re now 9 7 & 4. The bond they have is amazing, I am comforted that they always have each other and they actively seek each other out at school during the day. On the whole they get on well although at home one is usually left out, so I can see why people go on to have a fourth.

House is always chaotic though. Noisy and messy. I’m always rushing about and never get a chance to sit still. Half term childcare is a nightmare, and family members are not keen to look after all 3 together as it’s too much for them.

One massive downside to me, is that I do not get the 1-1 time with each child that they need. I am really noticing this now my oldest is pre teen. I try to set a whole day aside once a month to take her out alone but they need more on a daily basis and I am constantly being pulled three ways.

I did not change my car, always driven a focus or similar and they fit in fine. Partner squeezes in the middle.

Another problem is booking hotel rooms. It can’t be done for 5 in most places. Days out are expensive too.

@Manthide
I think you possibly had too large an age gap between, so it was bigger adjustment for eldest two to have a new baby sibling

Personally I wouldn't recommend more than a 4 year age gap by choice between number 2&3 siblings, if it can be helped.

You're probably right - I did want about 3 years gap and then I probably wouldn't have had a 4th. I just couldn't let go of having a third! Dd1 and 2 adore ds now and he goes to uni close to dd1 so she can keep an eye on him with his autism. Dd2 is helping with his year in industry and he'll live with her and her family then.

Those are all good points @Changethenamey

But with two parents and 3 DCs that's 1: 1.5 A:C ratio of children attention each and you can swop around so each child gets 1:1 time with one parent at least or make time at bedtime or cooking tea with one of DCs

Plenty of us lone parents with 3 DCs (1:3) or 2DCs (1:2) manage with less adult to DC ratio to still fit in 1:1 time with each child each day even if it's 15 mins and time at weekends.

Don't forget they'll also have time together and separately with their siblings for attention

(Lack of attention is not something we suffer from in our household ...)

Fair enough point about aging Gparents struggling to look after 3 DCs in school holidays but youngest one will be in nursery anyway for first 3+ years of the hardest childcare time if OP and DH are working so there's holiday clubs for the ones in school... definitely expensive but OP and DH earn good wages between them

My parents took the eldest two school children on holiday and I kept younger with me in nursery during school holidays

Once she DC3 was at school by then my eldest child DC1 was nearly 10 and perfectly capable of helping with his 4 yo youngest YrR sibling when Gparents looked after them all together in school holidays in the day whilst I worked

And my parents also loved taking DC3 (littlest) on holiday on her own in term time before she started school - so she had her time with Gparents. We did divide and conquer...

That's wonderful @Manthide 🥰
Sounds like you've brought up a loving big family there...!

I have 3, with 2 years between 1 and 2, then 5 years before number 3.

Honestly, it is brilliant but hard - I'd say money etc you can work out and sharing rooms is no problem. The biggest issue is the division of labour at home. If I'd stuck at 2 kids, I'd likely still be married. Probably ok, coasting, but not thoroughly miserable yet likely not happy either.

Having a 3rd child threw all my ex husband's shortcomings into sharp relief. Basically, I could cover his lazy bullshit when there were 2 kids. When there were 3, it just highlighted how physically and emotionally absent he was. Divorced before 3rd baby turned 3 and now never happier but by fuck it was hard. All 3 are absolutely amazing children and I'm so glad I had them, never regretted the third for an instant, but I do wonder if my elders might have been happier as a two with their mum and dad together.

You know your kids' dad best: if you think he won't be a twat, crack on.

I had three for many years. It was brilliant, I loved it. Then I decided to have one more at 41 and got twins, so that was a shocker, But I love 5 as well.

Just get a 7 seater, and it's all good.

@Tiani4 sounds great, I’m glad you manage to make it work with your three 🤗

Never have more kids than you have hands is my rule!

My only experience with 3 is a friend and my mum. My mum hated being the middle child, they often get overlooked, and I think the same happens with my friends kids. She does say 3 is way harder than when she just had the 2. Of course she loves them all but she constantly looks stressed and I see the middle one just looks a bit lost in it all.

@Tiddlywinx twins didn't run in either of our families, I ended up with 3 under 2!

3 DC here - 5 years between eldest and youngest, all teens now.

The early years were hard work but we just found an extra gear somehow.

My DH died 2 years ago and I'm especially glad that there are three of them to support each other. They're a gang, a tribe, and there's always someone to play with and someone to fight with.

I think not beating yourself up about letting things slide is key to having 3. I work full time and one of our favourite meals is FFY (Fend For Yourself) 😊

And no truck with hobbies that would require me to ferry them around at weekends.