Why do people keep voting the tortes in again and again

[Thomasina79]

Not wanting an argument, just wondering. Another Tory has been dismissed for dishonesty and day after day we hear of stories about people having to choose between heating and eating. Surely people realise we need a change of government? The NHS and other support services such as teachers are on strike. What next?

My (American) MIL once said, America will drive to the poorhouse. It's such a big country and so varied across time and climatic zones, urban and rural, that a car is a ticket to somewhere better and a place to stay and transport your world. And the 50 states are deliberately very different; there really isn't much homogeneity about the lived American experience; only the unity of E Pluribus Unum.

For me there's 3 groups, 2 who have veered to the Tory's and 1 which gives them a steady base. Any swing in these groups will see a labour win next time around.

• Those who have probably done well for themselves over the past 15 years and so haven't really experienced the difficulties that many have. These are often floating voters who are less bothered about a party, rather their own circumstances so will usually vote for the status quo if life has worked out for them and change if things get tougher.

• Those who will always vote one way or another, Tory or Labour no matter what.

• Those who simply haven't liked labours leaders in recent times enough to want to enact change but would jump ship to them at the first sign of competency. I think this group are those that will swing things for labour at the next election as Starmer is pretty boring, but steady hands is what the country has needed for some time now. His biggest risk is that Sunak turns out to be somehow competent as PM as they're both pretty similar in the charisma stakes.

Labour need to appeal to aspirational, hard working people instead of those reliant on benefits and content to remain so for the rest of their lives.

Because I like be on a middle income family and all I see from the alternatives are piss and moan with no substance. They are only concerned with sticking up for minorities and people on benefits. They don't speak for me or my family and neither do the Tories but the Tories are the lesser of end of a double ended shitty stick.

Oh look, another post saying you should vote for who I prefer and not your own choice...

You can't blame people for being pissed off, the Tories have broke the country.🤷‍♀️

@Jimboscott0115 I tend to agree that default voters lean Tory. They need to see a better, realistic and costed vision offered by another party before they will entertain change, preferably without whizzy gender political promises. If you are in the public sector, with straitened pay offers being made (because the taxpayer can't stump up a lot more) then eventually you are going to have to settle for two-thirds of what you want and see it as a fair deal, plus a decent pension scheme.

Otherwise, people like me and DH, who have built small businesses with a degree of success (with earnings a little higher than a train driver) are just going to relocate overseas and place our incomes and savings beyond the Chancellor's grasp.

We are only prosperous rather than rich but we have put hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours work into planning the house we bought and the pension that will mean we shall have a decent standard of life in retirement instead of wondering whether we can afford a meal out or to turn the heating up to comfortable, and leave a little to our DC. At nearly 70, we are about to inherit half of DPIL's estate, but as it largely went on care home fees, what's left is not going to make us wealthy, although it will help SIL, who works in social care, to buy a home for retirement with her partner that's not at the whim of a landlord. People like us look at Labour with a lot of fear. We've worked for 45 years and been sensible, but our house is worth much more than it was when we bought it, and MN is keen on the greedy, entitled boomer trope. We have worked towards a goal of a comfortable retirement for ourselves, and it's been entirely self funded. I just don't want to find the rug pulled from under me.

Where are you thinking of going to @EffortlessDesmond? The Conservatives are out next election. They don't want to win and know that they may not even get enough seats to form The Opposition.🤦‍♀️

You might be better doing it sooner rather than later.

Literally nothing works like it used to.

Even the most basic thing we used to take for granted like getting an ambulance when you need one.

I would vote for a torte if I could - my preference is lemon.

I live in a safe tory seat and haven't bothered to vote for years.

All politicians seem awful to me. Most of them seem to be sociopaths.

Tories mantra of market growth and endlessly investing in manufacturing forever isn't going to work. The economy is struggling - wage stagnation for decades, the housing bubble, tax evasion, depressed areas. But the people with the only real power - economic power (aka, wealth) - have such a vested interest in keeping it going as it is that they have artificially propped it up on air. And what happens when it falls down?

Social cohesion struggles. There really isn't that much tying many of us together (as a "society") so why would people try to vote in their community's best interests instead of their own? Look at Scotland for example - they think their own way, they vote their own way. Shouldn't they be allowed to split (independence) and form their own community?

And labour?

Why doesn't labour champion the working class anymore? And women's rights are out of fashion lately too. Guardian commenter types are especially distasteful to me - they seem to actively hate the working class and jump at the chance to call them scum if they dare not to vote in the Guardian-approved direction.

Will labour raise taxes? Well, the government are always doing an awful job with the taxes that they do have (NHS, rail, etc). How is giving them more going to help? Corruption is rife, but even if not corrupt they're mismanaged. Labour can't fix that in a day. So let those public services die (privatise)?

Well, no, I don't agree with that. But we're too far into this system now to dig ourselves out.

So what do we need? I'm thinking a revolution - now we just need a popular figure to lead us...

Biased media (including the bbc, and the guardian) trashed the best chance we had in decades for a decent government. The media controls it all. Who owns the media? Tories.

I see OP hasn't bothered to engage with the thread

So what do we need? I'm thinking a revolution - now we just need a popular figure to lead us...

Moksorine in this revolution who do you have in your sights apart from Tory MPs?
Will all rich people be fair game? What about the Royal Family?
From where will you get weapons?

A big problem for Labout IMHO is the the First past the post system. Having lost practically all their Scottish labour seats to the SNP they really need to be open to electoral change and cutting a coalition type deal with other parties in order to be in power. If Labour had made overtures to the Lib dems and others rather than letting the LD cut a deal with Cameron we might have had a different country.

It's no good securing even more votes in already strong Labour safe seats, in the diverse major cities they need to attract voters in seats they need to turn and just get into power again.

Am I too late to vote for a Linzertorte?

I once tried to make a Sachertorte. It turned out disgusting and reeeeeeaaaaallly expensive for disgustingness. I need to try a proper one i think from a bakery.

As for the actual question. People vote for who they want to in a democratic society.

Or would OP want a dictatorship where no one has the right to vote? I mean this way this question wouldnt get asked once a week on AIBU.

Do you do any campaigning in your local area OP to try to change peoples minds or convince them that another party is better for them? Or just whinge after an election that your favourite party didnt win and asking questions like 'god why do people keep voting in these idiots'? Rather than actively working to change peoples minds.

Entirely self funded eh? What does that even mean? That you've never received benefits or taken a loan/finance of any kind?

Well, that's great for you but unless you've never employed anyone, never subcontracted, never used a supplier for goods or materials, never taken a mortgage, never driven on a public road, never used electricity/gas from the grid, never bought food from a supermarket, never atteneded school/college/uni or sent your kids there, never needed a doctor or hospital, never had your bins collected, etc, etc, being "self-funded" isn't an achievement.

You have been able to plan and save for your retirement partly because you have "worked hard", partly because you found a niche you could exploit, and mostly because you are part of a functioning, educated, and healthy society (relatively speaking) that facilitated your business.

You have repeatedly voted for a party that has constantly picked at the seams of the fabric of society, to the point it is now starting to unravel. Yet, your response is not to take ownership and try to address the consequences of your actions but to threaten to "relocate overseas" if anyone else should try to do so. In my opinopn this county would be in a far better situation of people like you had relocated overseas a long time ago.

For people saying things like "it doesn't matter which party gets in, all politicians are the same"

You don't need to be quite so deliberately obtuse @Thebestwaytoscareatory . Of course, we have done most of those things, and we have paid all the taxes and charges along the way: personal income, council tax, corporation tax, VAT, NIC, road vehicle and excise duties, the tax and duty on petrol, insurance premiums and air travel to play our part in society along the way, for more than 40 years. We've also paid rent, business rates and utilities and met a payroll every month. We have saved for our retirement out of income, using the normal tax incentives. I am just reluctant to write any government, of any hue, a blank ticket.

Southwestten the kinks in the revolution plan will be worked out in due course

The main difference between the Tories and Labour is that the Tories have slowly dismantled the system, while Labour want to push it off a cliff.
So when it comes to election time, people who are scared of falling off a cliff have voted Tory in the hopes the slow dismantling can be stopped or reversed.

If Labour would pull their fingers out, they could get elected. The last two elections should have been a shoo in for them. But their policies have been so bad its almost as if they don't want to be in power.

Yet the extreme element in the tory backbenches delivered the utter pointlessness and pain that is brexit. That's just one of their divisions where clearly the wrong side won. All those looking after themselves must be happy about living and raising their kids in a society that is broken. Wake up and look at all the union members striking (otherwise known as the workers that actually keep the country moving despite chronic underfunding by tories). Deregulation by another name would be losing worker rights. Regulations are what have been fought for over centuries to keep us safe and well.

None of this is hard. I'm not saying any party are perfect as those who seek power shouldn't be allowed near power but until the voting system is changed to accurately reflect the electorate - we'll be stuck with the current incompetents for even longer.

My ideal would be a coalition of the best people from all the parties in government but I don't know how you'd judge that. I don't know how the likes of some of the politicians have ever been voted in in their constituencies though. It will remain a mystery - must be rotten boroughs or something.

In my opinion this county would be in a far better situation of people like you had relocated overseas a long time ago.

Thebestwaytoscare - Every single person who votes Tory should have moved abroad?
So a one party state but at least the housing crisis would be solved.

Also small state just means we prop up private companies for the services we have which would be cheaper if state run instead.

Yes, Andante57. And we'd have created a business paying tax elsewhere! In my childhood, that was known as "cutting off your nose to spite your face".