Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

Not getting sucked in, except to day that I don’t think section of MN was a wise choice to post for bereavement support.

It was a rhetorical question.

The OP has not posted for bereavement support - although she has certainly been castigated repeatedly by posters who seem to feel it is their duty to tell her she needs to have no self, life, or consideration for her husband and children.

I agree AIBU may not have been the best board but it isn't for bereavement advice. Maybe relationships would have been better?

@Rosscameasdoody I totally agree with you, I think MN should pull this thread, it is not going in a constructive direction.
The OP asked a valid question about drawing boundaries with a person suffering from complex grief, a question which was motivated by a desire to protect her DH, who is also grieving. Grief can lead people to behave in a way that is challenging for their loved ones and it is entirely legit to talk about this on an anonymous forum for the purposes of finding solutions or just venting. This is not the same as saying people should only grieve in certain pre-approved ways or on a "timeline". It's being honest about the fact that grief "fallout" is a thing and that there comes a point where one has to set boundaries.
I was personally lurking on this thread in the hope of gaining some insights as I am 18 months into handling the repercussions of my FIL's death. I won't go into detail here, but my DH and MiL have shown some very, very difficult behaviours since he passed,and as a mum and a wife I am treading a fine line between respecting their grief on the one hand, and not allowing my home to descend into a permanently tense and chaotic environment on the other. If anyone wants to start another thread on a different forum, perhaps the bereavement one, on handling the practical and emotional fallout of complex grief of close family members, I am all for that... I may even start it myself. Good luck OP, if you are still reading.

Have you started a thread yourself? I really hope you find some support.

@CuriousMama not started one but thinking to do so. I think the problem that OP has raised actually quite prevalent, but it's very difficult to talk about, because if you are anything like me, you don't want people to think you are minimising someone's grief. It's easy to sink into feelings of guilt and overwhelm
I think it's also quite common for people in their 30s/40s to experience the loss of a parent and then having to juggle a) their own grief b) supporting their widowed parent and c) keeping on top of the demands and responsibilities of family life, especially if kids are at the pre-school stage. It's a lot to deal with. I think folks in this situation, and their spouses, probably need a separate "safe space" to discuss their feelings as they navigate this balancing act where they won't feel judged or have to worry about knee-jerk reactions of others.

Re breaking up the car journey by staying overnight -
Should the son drive 3 hours after work on Friday leaving OP with the kids (when does he eat?). Then drive 3 hours on Saturday, arriving home say 11:30am.
Then on Sunday set off at 3pm once again leaving OP with the kids, drive 3 hours there, 3 hours back (when does he eat?) Arriving home again at 9:30 exhausted from driving 12 hours over the weekend, while OP is also exhausted because she's been doing the huge majority of the child care and now it's Monday again,?

Or could Mil just get on the train at 4 and be there at 6 on Friday. And vice versa on Sunday? (Timetable allowing)

I cannot get over how many people think a fit and healthy woman in her 60s is entitled to be pandered to at the expense of her DS, DIL and DGC. Have you considered the actual logistics for OPs family?

I think this thread has so many replies as many are in similar position. It is hard to speak about.
Op is seeing her husband grieving too and struggling. Potentially harming their family eg calling in sick risking disciplinary, more risk of accident driving tired after work.
64 is working age not elderly.
Suggestions that he does all visiting and driving aren’t realistic for a man with a full time job and 2 young children that probably have activities and parties every weekend. If he’s not there Op is left doing all childcare and housework.
If she hasn’t been independent then leaving it isn’t going to help. It will only worsen as she ages. Starting small eg him accompanying her on train to build confidence seems very sensible.
Another suggestion would be coach holiday. My mum and her elderly friends often use them as a way to see family & friends. They can be extremely cheap and are geared to older market eg Daish’s.

Have I mIsread the OP’s post ? Seemed to me she was looking for the best way to support her DH and MIL through their bereavement. Is that not bereavement support ?

Yes, I think you have misread the OP's posts. Indeed, even the title makes it clear, Further posts also show this decent, thoughtful woman is overwhelmed by the demands her MIL is making on them all in her grief. OP is asking for support and understanding, and also wanting reassurance she is not a horrible person for feeling she cannot face another visit like this in March.

What I find really interesting having read through it all recently before commenting for the first time, is that in the first half of the thread there was a lot of support for MIL from people who clearly had experience of the grieving process. There was a particular poster trying their best to clarify the grieving process for those who hadn’t experienced it for themselves, and she (apologies if I’m misgendering but she mentioned losing her husband) was chased off the thread despite posting from her own experience and offering some sound advice. One by one all of those posters dropped out because of people basically telling them their views were skewed, MIL is toxic and by supporting her they were somehow condemning her family, which was nothing of the sort.

Your take on it seems to be that those posters were attempting to tell others on the thread that they should only grieve in certain pre approved ways or on a timeline. My take was that the advice was the opposite. The point that was being made was that everyone grieves differently, the impact of grief on your life differs according to your relationship to the loved one you’ve lost and that there is no specific timeline. What I also saw was an attempt to explain MIL’s behaviour as a second, more intense round of grief allied to the fact that she was beginning to realise her situation was permanent and unchangeable. All met with a lot of scorn. The thread now seems to be filled with posters who are suggesting that MIL should be left alone to get on with it because it’s too difficult to deal with her. Grief is difficult and as someone upthread commented, we don’t discuss death nearly enough in this country, so people are left to get on with it because grief is not well understood - it’s understandable because it’s something none of us want to think about, but until we do sad situations like this are going to keep cropping up because we’re uncomfortable around the bereaved.

I fully agree that someone should dump the thread and start another in a gentler environment because this is helping no one.

There was a particular poster trying their best to clarify the grieving process for those who hadn’t experienced it for themselves, and she (apologies if I’m misgendering but she mentioned losing her husband) was chased off the thread despite posting from her own experience and offering some sound advice.

There was a particular poster who took it upon herself to turn this thread into the Grief Olympics, telling others (in up to 100 posts) that their understanding and experience of grief was lesser than someone who had lost a spouse, and then telling those who mentioned this was offensive that she had never said that.

She was not "driven off" but rather flounced, at least twice.

I agree with Rosscames take There was a lot of misunderstanding shown about grief. Until you understand that the MILs actions are normal and not some terrible aberration or mental health problem, you can not begin to look at how you deal with it.
Take MILs reluctance to use the train. If you think she is a cheeky fucker, you have a very different reaction to if you understand that after a major bereavement a lot of people become more anxious and less confident. The first thought process leads you to - well she can just get a train. The second thought process leads to, is there anything I can do to support MIL to be able to get a train okay.
That is why understanding the grief process matters. Bereavement, especially of someone who is a close part of your daily life for decades is really hard. Overnight your whole life changes.

Methinks we’re talking about the same poster, and it wasn’t the ‘grief olympics’ as you so charmingly put it. I didn’t see any evidence of telling others their grief was anything other than valid, and it was repeated time and time again that everyone’s grief is different. She didn’t flounce off, she got pissed off trying to get her point across to the baying mob.

Actually no. She totally dominated the thread for a while and was very invested in telling pretty much everyone who had a different opinion/experience that they were flat out wrong. Unhelpful.

It is difficult to know what to do, I remember when my father died family would invite us to Sunday dinner or to go to the cinema or something. We were kids so not our choice but mum would agree, we'd go and have a nice time. We'd get home and she would be in bits, she said she wished people would leave her alone as going out wasn't worth the pain when she got home. I suppose she agreed to go for us really but it wasn't doing her any good and the effort to join in wasn't actually a kindness.

Maybe the MIL feels like that, agrees to go because she thinks she should but it isn't positive for her. Maybe a kindness would be to just leave her be for a while. People vary so much and what is right for one isn't right for another so I suppose the skill is being able to recognise what the individual needs.

You are clearly comparing different levels of grief. Saying you're not doesn't make it so.

It is not natural to experience agrophobia as part of grief.

No one, absolutely no one has mentioned breezing anywhere. However taking out your anger on your son (and his family) who is trying his best to be supportive eighteen months on is not normal grieving, whether you think it is or not.

Do you have any leave in Feb half term? I wonder if you could arrange a day trip or overnight near her and meet. I’m thinking National trust type place.
Spend some time together. Husband have some 1-1 time with her - you have a cup of tea with your mum, I’ll take kids to playground. Husband to broach March with her. We we wondering if you’d like to come but understand if you don’t feel like it type approach. Make it clear it can’t be chauffeured door to door. Then it’s her decision.

It is not natural to experience agrophobia as part of grief.

How can you know that? If you lost a baby, you don't want to go out and see prams being pushed around. You lose a partner, you probably don't want to see couples holding hands and laughing. The change of routine like train instead of car, reminds you that your husband isn't around to drive you. Don't see how it's abnormal at all- not to say it's good but doubt it's uncommon.

Not what I took from it and I’ve read the whole thread.

Yes, I got ticked off although my first post both referenced the fact that I was widowed and also was (I believe) sympathetic to the MIL.

I firmly believe that there is no "right" way to grieve as every single person and bereavement is unique, but it was clear to me that this woman needs encouragement to seek help and support. Ignoring family members for a full day in their own home is not healthy and neither is infantilising adults.

@turquoisepenguin sincerely hope that at least parts of this thread have been helpful.

Go help us all. Is that what you took from all those posts even after it being clarified and explained several times that there was no intent compare different levels of grief ? I think it was perfectly clear that she, and quite a few others were making the distinction that rather than different levels of grief itself, there are different types of grief and the impact on the bereaved persons’ life depends on how they are related to the deceased. And agoraphobia is quite common, and a perfectly natural part of the grieving process. Along with a lot of the symptoms the OP’s mother in law is experiencing, agoraphobia is a trauma response and is associated with the sudden death of a loved one. By denying that, are you not yourself telling people that their grief experience is not valid ? No one is saying the OP and her husband are not being as supportive as they can, no one is saying it’s not difficult, what they do seem to be saying that they are not fully understanding of the grieving process and the stage that MIL is at - when they get the support they need hopefully MIL’s family will have the knowledge and understanding they need for them all to move forward. That’s something that a number of posters on this thread have said, and been met with a barrage of abuse.

However taking out your anger on your son (and his family) who is trying his best to be supportive eighteen months on is not normal grieving, whether you think it is or not.

Actually it’s a perfectly normal part of grieving in the second year when you’re beginning to accept that this is a major change in your life that you can do nothing about. You get angry. You have mood swings, and you lash out because the unfairness of having your loved one taken from you also dawns - especially if it’s early in life because you also realise that the future you thought you had with that person has also been taken away. It’s no one’s fault and family are usually in the firing line. It’s not nice, it’s difficult to deal with and it does suggest that MIL might benefit from counselling. But it’s perfectly natural.

It's completely natural to feel agoraphobia/anger/disbelief/ rage/bitterness/hate/frustration/irritability/sadness/self pity/also acceptance/silence/talking nonstop about the person /circumstances of death/blaming/venting etc etc.

Not all snd not all in that order or none of these. Over a short time or a life time.

Honestly the ignorance from some here is breathtaking

Agoraphobia?