Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

FFS people read the fucking thread! OP is not talking about someone who is doing anything to help herself or having a normal grieving process, but rather rejecting any kind of help and behaving appallingly - not on a one off basis but ongoing. @Highdaysandholidays1 summed it up really well. OP, hope you can find a way to set some healthy limits. It will not be easy and you will feel guilty but it helped push my step dad out of his rut and has been helpful in the long term.

Op it sounds like you’ve been kind, and people on this thread have accused you of all sorts of things that are not true. Grieving doesn’t mean it’s ok to be abusive to your adult children (silent treatement), nor does it mean you can’t sit on a train.

Was she a dickhead before she was bereaved?

There’s no such thing as a “normal grieving process”. Everyone’s journey is different.

I'm so sorry for your loss, but you are taking out your relationship with your son on the OP. She hasn't said they don't phone her (and actually I don't see why you can't phone your son outside work hours - my mil calls us early evening Sunday usually, which works well as we are usually all in so she can chat to us and kids).

But anyway, surely you can see that if it's a 6 hour round trip, 'picking her up and spoiling her for a few days every few weeks' isn't practical for someone with a job and kids to look after? If she would travel by herself without ruining the rest of the stay by sulking, then she probably could come more often as it wouldn't necessitate annual leave or putting jobs at risk by calling in sick every time.

And I think op knows it would be good for her to have a relationship with her grandchildren, but that's not going to happen if she makes them uncomfortable by sulking, and crying when they do something nice for her.

It's heartbreaking for everyone and there are no easy answers, but I didn't think OP is being a terrible person here!

I totally get it OP. DH's sister is the bereaved person. Her husband died on new years eve 2021. Her husband was an utterly awful person in his younger days. He used to beat her 2 son's around the head (one of them is dead), drunk a lot, hit his wife, smoked, cheated the benefit systems, used his dead brother's driving license, stole. DH's sister was besotted with her late hubby however. I couldn't stand him. She's turned into a selfish lying whining woman since the death. She moans about her remaining son constantly. Forgets totally that he is grieving too. I can't stand to be around her now. She does nothing to help herself. She's a pensioner, disabled, lives on benefits. Refused grievance help, refused anti depressants. Blames the NHS constantly for her hubby's death.

I mean, for f*ck's sake, my father died when I was 20 yrs of age. My mother was back at work 2 days after her husband/my father's death. Took a day off for the funeral. She had to do this for financial reasons. Had a mortage to pay until a mortgage policy paid off the mortgage. She had no savings. DH's sister has had it quite good in my opinion regarding time to grieve, etc.

Could you say to her kindly

it didn’t seem to help when you came to stay and we don’t want to upset you, so why not let us know what we can do to help when you are ready

It'll be interesting to see if now, having been forced to use the train and having acted out her fear and anger by being rude and ungrateful to OP and her DS, she'll use it again. You may — by appearing to be cruel — have actually been kind, OP, though it may be a long time before that is acknowledged.

Yes this .

...Thats not how medication works. You aren't a zombie. You feel what you feel, but it helps keep you moving so you don't get stuck in the lowest of the lows.

I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

I also take offense at your clear idea that people on medication are not dealing with their trauma. Do some research. Maybe meds wouldn't have been right for you but some people do really need them and they help.

This. A kind response with sensible advice.

I was 59 when my husband died suddenly six years ago, and recognise your MIL's 'what ifs', her constant repetition is her shocked mind trying to accept the situation. I got home to find a man in my drive standing next to my husband who was face down on the lawn, he hadn't tried CPR, he'd just stopped his car and asked my neighbour to phone for an ambulance. It still haunts me that I might have been able to save him if I'd got home sooner, although I know the reality is that only 2% of cardiac arrest cases do survive.

These regrets are normal, but talking everything through with a counsellor helps.

It is so difficult being widowed, your whole future changes and you have to do everything yourself, on your own. Personally I feel very vulnerable.

Good luck, I hope your DH manages to persuade her that bereavement counselling would help.

I agree. The second year of being widowed can be more difficult than the first year.

Hopefully in the first year family and folk will be supportive and helpful to the widow/widower. However, this often drops off ( ' it's been a year, should be over it by now' ) but the widowed person starts to realise that 'this is all there is' and that there is nothing to look forward to.

Until you've lost your partner you have no idea what it's like, or how you will copy. Basically, it's sh*t.

I can also recommend WayUp, an on-line forum, if your MiL has IT skills.
way-up.co.uk/

You don't sound like a very nice person, so I am not surprised your MiL doesn't take any advice from you.

I said I wouldn’t return to the thread but how dare you. I know how anti depressant medication works as I have been treated for depression on and off for thirty years and some medication takes away the ability to feel anything, which is not helpful with the grieving process - at some point you have to deal with it head on. I suggested that medication may not be helpful to MIL at this point because she was already 18 months in and possibly dealing with a second onslaught of grief brought about by the realisation and acceptance of her situation - which is a perfectly natural stage of grief and has to be faced.

Take offence all you want - I never ever suggested that people on medication were not dealing with their trauma. I said I had refused it and why. I don’t need to do research I’ve lived it. This is a fucking awful thread and this is yet another indication that some posters have very little idea of the natural grieving process.

A lot of anti depressants come with withdrawal when you stop them.

The idea of taking responsibility for one's own mental well-being is great on paper but when in the grip of a serious depression makes no sense at all. When I was in that state, just getting out of bed was beyond me, and all I wanted was to die. I had neither the physical nor emotional strength to take responsibility for anything at all.

She only wants to cry, talk about FIL and watch TV, really.

I was widowed at 62. Grief is a process without short cuts, and we all experience it differently. Seven years on, I am only just starting to use the past tense when talking about DH. I was glad that I had no one to see the many days when I just cried, watched tv and wallowed in grief. I had to force myself to look at funny shows knowing that smiling/laughing fools the brain into a happier feeling. I was so concerned that I might be depressed that I attended a session with a counsellor who said that I was not depressed, just sad and grieving. I think that gave me permission to grieve as I wanted, in private. I used to warn friends if I was about to cry and everyone understood.

I know that your MIL isn't interested in support groups atm, but from a recommendation on the Macmillan Cancer website, I found out about www.way-up.co.uk. It is both an online group and local group meet-ups resource. I don't use it much anymore, but it was helpful to realise that how I was feeling wasn't unusual and there were lots of handholding and support, with people telling their experiences and offering advice. Why not show MIL the site and explore it together. It's a bit like MN for widows and widowers.

OP, I guess what I am trying to say is that it's ok to just let MIL do what she wants to, right now. It might be frustrating for you to see her like this, but at the same time she soon needs to realise that she is now alone and has to step up her independence even though every "first" will be scary.

How is it a 6 hour round trip when the train takes 2 hours? 2 hours there + 2 hours back = 4hours. Does traffic add another 2 hours to the journey.

Trains can go at 120 miles per hour.

Are you serious? You know that trains can be quicker than cars over long distances right?

It's really not unusual for trains to be quicker than car (although I guess op may not have factored in getting to the station.) But even if it too slightly longer, it's still a retired person traveling one way in a day, not someone who works full time travelling two ways in one day, so I think the exact time is irrelevant.

I’d like to encourage OP to adopt the both-and approach.

BOTH: Mil is really hard to be around and it’s draining when she apparently shows no inclination to do any of the things that might help her work through her grief (NOT get over FIL’s death or get back to normal, because she never can. But she can accept and develop a new normal, which will be different to the previous normal, and will (eventually) have its own kind of joy and purpose)

AND: She needs love, compassion, support and time to do what she needs to do.

Could your DH talk to her and say something like, look mum, I can see you’re really struggling - and I miss Dad too - but last time you came it didn’t seem like it did you any good at all. What can we do differently? Could we maybe plan to go out for a coffee/take the kids to the park/ just go for a walk when you’re here?

I dunno. I don’t think personally you should feel guilty that you feel negatively towards her. Being around someone who is depressed and passive is really hard work. But it’s very unlikely she’s suddenly going to find the will to start joining groups or going to counselling. It’s going to take a lot of coaxing - and that needs patience.

A 2 hour train journey for a retired person as opposed to a six hour drive (3 hours there, 3 hours back) for a full-time working parent? She's being selfish here, and that is because she has never been the driver. She can blank out the 3 hours your DH has already been driving before he gets to her because she can.

Don't back down on this OP. Keep having to stay, yes, but using the train will eventually give her some independence even if she can't see it now. She might visit other places on the train, you never know.

@RoseThornside If she is very anxious about using the train she is not going to go on leisure journeys by train without more support.

The voice of reason. I was 59. I think contributors to this thread are not grasping that grief and depression are two different things. I found it very hard, and still do, to refer to my late husband in the past tense. The first time I had to utter the phrase, ‘my husband died’ was so hard I still can’t find the words to describe it nearly six years on. It’s interesting that you mention you watched comedy shows - I found myself taking comfort from sitcoms like Frasier and one or two other similar shows. They seemed familiar and friendly, and when I was at the stage where I couldn’t sleep without the TV on in the bedroom it was a comfort. Strange the things we do isn’t it ?

I well remember a second, really hard swipe of grief in my second year when it hit me that this was my life from now on and that I had to get on with it. My counsellor advised that this was part of the process, and the OP’s description of her MIL’s behaviour did make me wonder whether she is now at this stage because I was similarly affected. Acceptance is the hardest part I think - when you lose your life partner it takes a long time to come to terms with the impact on every area of your life and I think anger and frustration go hand in hand with the process of accepting things as they are, while you’re still longing for the life you lost.

I found WayUp about two weeks after I lost my husband and for me it was a life saver. I found a lot of support and stayed with it for about 3 years - I went to one or two of the meet ups when I felt strong enough and found those really helpful too. I’ve suggested that the OP visit the site because I think it would be helpful for all of them. As you will know the people on there are at different stages of the journey and experiencing different types of loss, so there’s a wealth of experience and I think it’s more appropriate than the frankly, sometimes combative atmosphere of MN. I think the OP’s MIL and her DH will find it helpful and hopefully the OP will too, as it may give her the tools she needs to help her family through it all.

@Highdaysandholidays1 I've got a lovely 83 year old FIL (very youthful) with exactly your attitude and he's been widowed twice. We enjoy having him to stay for 3 days about every 5 weeks and he drives 3 hours to usas he prefers where we live as it has more'life' . We've been on holiday with him too and his view is he wants to cram in as much as he can.