Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

I've read the whole thread. And I just want to say OP that you come across as a good person who is trying her best in a difficult situation. Stick to your guns with the train journey and support you husband. Your MIL sounds like a difficult and selfish woman, grief or no grief.

I’d probably ask if she wanted to stay in March and go with it . But lm a softy and can’t bear to think of people isolated. You and your husband might just agree to accept her where she’s at and have no expectations. Carry on your normal behaviour and routine around her and leave her to watch tv etc . As others have said this may take time and despite everything she needs kindness. Good luck whatever you decide.

I have read many but not all posts but something that strikes me is that your MIL perhaps has no experience of independence? Did she do stuff on her own before she married, did she work? If not it's going to be a massive change for her suddenly living on her own. Are there any other relatives or family friends who'd take her out for the day? Could you guys go down early in the morning and take her out to town, take her somewhere - wherever. Two hours is doable for a long day trip. If you could do this kind of thing regularly it might be a change for her and not such a burden for you. It sounds like these longer trips aren't currently working. Isn't there anybody else you could ask to occasionally pop in or take her out? I'd factor in one day every two weeks or so when one or all of you just go down and see her.

Read the post above your own. Grief changes you in ways you couldn’t imagine before your loss.

I'm not sure why you assume that I (or anyone else) has not experienced loss or grief. The death by suicide of my father left me devastated and in a state of mourning that lasted frankly decades.

I cannot get another father. You apparently have gone and got yourself another husband, however. Please don't assume you are the font of all knowledge re grief.

I stand by what I've said re toxic behaviours.

She’s not intentionally ‘punishing’ anyone and even the OP hasn’t suggested that.

Refusing to speak for 24 hours after arriving by train was punishment.

OP I'm older than your MIL and have a hammy hip. A 2 hour train trip is not unrraso able, yes a taxi or lift to the stations is good too but I what is unreasonable is expecting your DH to spend such a lot of time driving, especially if he has to take leave to do so. She can choose quiet trains, and if you work out train times for her and what to do if she misses a train etc it shojld not be stressful and if she has a senior railcard it should work out so much cheaper, OK that's not the issue but there are some who would perceive someone else driving miles to pick them up as free. Coming on The train most times doesn't men never getting a lift does it
It is very sad that she doesn't want to join widows groups, as talking about the grief and trauma is important and it sounds as if she is bottling it all up and just letting it all out on you and DH. Which isn't good for anyone, you're not expecting her not to speak about it but for your family not to be the only people she talks to about it. Dad she hasn't got friends though.
I don't know what the answer is though

Not assuming anything and have said over and over again that I don’t think any one form of grief is worse than any other - it’s different for everyone and the impact on your life is different according to the relationship you had with the person you have lost. I called you out because you said that grief has brought out and exacerbated traits and behaviour that were already there in MIL. You can’t know this any more than I or anyone else can. To imply that she is just a horrible person and is using her grief to punish her family is indefensible and I don’t think it’s a conclusion that most people who have lost someone would jump to.

I’m very sorry for your loss it’s clearly impacted your life a lot, but in a different way than the loss of a life partner has an impact on the person left behind in what was a co-dependent relationship. I’m puzzled by one thing though. You say your grief has lasted decades, and yet you feel entitled to judge the behaviour of someone whose loss is only 18 months old and try to minimise what she’s going through. Why is that ?

And to address your last point. I lost my own father to cancer. For every minute of every day for the last three years I have been losing my mother bit by bit to dementia. Of course you can’t replace a parent, but I think most people would agree that in the natural order of things, the loss of a parent is to be expected in one’s own lifetime, and for most people, although the grief they feel is comparable, the impact on their lives will not be the same as if they have lost a life partner.

I’m not setting myself up as any kind of expert, I’m only posting out of personal experience and trying to empathise with MIL who has lost someone in similar circumstances to my own, and I fully understand how difficult it is for the rest of her family to cope with her behaviour, which is why I’ve posted to the OP giving suggestions for support sites for her and her family.

One last point. You said you can’t replace your father. Can you accept that although I have remarried, I cannot replace my husband ? I lost him six years ago and only remarried recently - it has taken me that long to come to terms with and accept his death. Beginning a new relationship after I lost my husband took a long time, a lot of soul searching and working through a lot of feelings of guilt at moving on. My second husband is a person in his own right, and in no way a ‘replacement’ for the man I loved and lost. When you lose a life partner you lose your whole way of life and have to rebuild it. I’ve done that, and I know that my late husband would be proud of me for that. Your comment ‘You apparently have gone and got yourself another husband, however’ is spiteful and designed to hurt. I would have thought that someone who has been through the kind of loss you have suffered would be above that. But you live and learn. Or not.

Not assuming anything

Bullshit.

and have said over and over again that I don’t think any one form of grief is worse than any other

Your posts say otherwise.

- it’s different for everyone and the impact on your life is different according to the relationship you had with the person you have lost.

I had a terrible relationship with my father. His suicide still devastated me. Didn't feel the need to pout or use the silent treatment on anyone though.

I called you out because you said that grief has brought out and exacerbated traits and behaviour that were already there in MIL. You can’t know this any more than I or anyone else can. To imply that she is just a horrible person and is using her grief to punish her family is indefensible and I don’t think it’s a conclusion that most people who have lost someone would jump to.

It is a conclusion anyone who has had experience of toxic personalities would easily recognize. Maybe your mileage varies, or perhaps you also like to act out in this way on others to impose your will and hence see nothing wrong with it.

Preston to London for example 2 h 10 mins on train. 5 hours assuming no traffic by car. When trains run ok/no strikes they can be very time efficient.

If my posts say otherwise to you then you are not reading them properly or misunderstanding what I’m saying. And your post is just having another go at me, you haven’t answered anything I’ve asked you. Definitely out of this thread now, it’s toxic.

@milkyaqua I’m sorry you have had such insensitive comments in reply to your posts. For someone to say to you that the loss of a parent is in the natural order of things when you have lost your father to suicide is unbelievable crass. And to claim to have any understanding of bereavement by suicide when they have not experienced this, again unbelievably crass and heartless. I’m sorry for your loss.

Thank you, BigTop. That means a lot.

Although it’s been a huge shock to her and she’s obviously grieving, she doesn’t have the right to be unreasonable towards you, your husband and your children.
Some people have to go back to work after losing a spouse and they have children to attend to etc.
Its not a good idea to moon around the house all day although I know depression depletes energy.
Even just going to her local fitness/yoga club would help her have a purpose to her day/week which she is currently lacking.
But:
if she’s unwilling to get support or make any sort of effort, the only thing you and your husband can really do is call her on the phone and listen to her.
There’s no point in having her stay with you, it will just allow resentment to accumulate to the point that you won’t be able to bear the thought of her.
Maybe she’s angry with your husband for not behaving towards her as her husband used to? Maybe she’s been pandered to all her married life?
Look at it like this:- would you expect your adult child to drive a 6 hour journey to pick you up when you could simply pop on a train?
If you wouldn’t, then why not?
Then think about how she’s treated your husband in the past - maybe her current behaviour is simply an exaggeration of her personality, unmasked now that her own husband isn’t there to temper her moods.
Live your own life but make it clear you’re there if she really needs anything.
She’s a grown woman and probably knows what she ought to do.
If she’d apologised to you for being a poor house guest, you wouldn’t be questioning yourself. But she didn’t. Even depressed people don’t lose their manners!

Where did I claim to have any understanding of bereavement by suicide - I haven’t experienced it so why would I ? I haven't been crass or insensitive to milkyaqua in relation to the tragic loss of her father, which, in light of their personal attack on me about my remarriage after the death of my husband, and the subsequent attack on my character, is more than can be said of them. I’ve tried to address the issues they had with me in my reply and I caught your post as I was turning off notifications for this thread, because I’m out. It’s descended into a slanging match based on the misreading or misinterpretation of what people are actually saying, it’s helping no-one and it’s toxic.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy I don’t wish to get into a conversation with you except to note that if a number of people are “misreading” your posts then it might be worth reflecting on what you have said.

The thing from this thread that is abundantly clear is that everyone is different. Some are fine and married again within a year some struggle a decade later. Some can catch trains and planes at 99 yrs old, some can't at 40.

With loved ones understanding and patience is required. I'm not suggesting we tolerate abuse but we really should let the person be how they feel they can be. Whether they are depressed, bereaved, anxious or all 3 we shouldn't judge we should just have some awareness and support them as best we can.

If the op can't then she should send her dh to visit his poor dm every few months and not put herself through the trauma of hosting a depressed alleged loved one who just wants to watch the telly and talk about her loss.

Hmm. Wonder if you ever - be brutally honest - were that fond of her, as the years progressed? I'll get stoned for this, but after many years on this planet I find that those carefree, gaily laughing, impossibly well-coiffed, younger-looking- than-their-actual age Oldies belong to Cremation and Holiday Ads, seeming effortlessly immersed in the shared mutual enjoyment of each other's company.

Also, if you lost DH suddenly (see "24H in A&E" which keeps me bluntly relevant to such unexpected occurrences), you would belatedly relate more closely to the grief sequence. I've done the 6h round-trips. They don't last forever. And could DH not stay overnight with her, to 'break' the journey. I did.

I have. And I think part of the problem is that people are not reading the full thread before jumping in. I’ve posted a lot on this thread and when people haven’t read what’s gone before it’s easy to take things out of context. Several people have said similar things to myself, and have agreed with things I’ve said. Don’t see them being called out. And to clarify one point in your post - my comment about losing a parent being in the natural order of things, was not directed at, nor personal to milkyaqua. What I said was that I think most people would agree that in the natural order of things, the loss of a parent is to be expected in one’s own lifetime, and for most people, although the grief they feel is comparable, the impact on their lives will not be the same as if they have lost a life partner. I was speaking generally, not attacking the poster. If you want an example of how I have been misinterpreted you have only to look at the exchange in which milkyaqua cut and pasted bits from my post and took them out of context:

Me: it’s different for everyone and the impact on your life is different according to the relationship you had with the person you have lost.

Milkyaqua: I had a terrible relationship with my father. His suicide still devastated me. Didn't feel the need to pout or use the silent treatment on anyone though.

They only posted half of my sentence, in which I was talking about the difference in the impact on your life according to your relationship to the person you’ve lost. Not the personal relationship, but whether the loss is of a parent, partner, child, aunt, uncle, friend, whatever. Their reply demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of my point because they then went on to say that they had a terrible relationship with their father - not what I was saying.

I agree that we should not get into a conversation about this, not least because you yourself have misinterpreted my words as I’ve outlined here. If I can figure out how to turn off notifications to the thread I can leave you all in peace to squabble.

I thought you said this thread was toxic and you were leaving @Lovelysausagedogscrumpy? I think that would be a good idea as I don't think it's doing you much good.

If the MIL stopped eating I assume people would be telling OP to try and get support for MIL and tell her she can’t go on like that. Mental health is as important as physical health

While she was in the house, she was in amongst the whole family, but the car journey, had it happened would of just been a few hours of her and her son yeah?

Maybe the sulking wasn't about the travel time, but about the alone time?

Been lurking since the start and have RTFT but so far haven’t commented.
I’ve seen some god awful threads on MN but this one takes the cake.
It’s supposed to be about bereavement and support for the OP and her family.
Instead it’s declined into a war of words and a witch hunt against certain posters. I think someone should get MN to pull it because it’s not just not helping the poster you’ve chased off the discussion, it’s not helping anyone. And I don’t suppose any of you have noticed that the OP hasn’t been back.
Don’t blame her.

And if she was fat the op should tell her to lose weight? Support does not mean telling people what to do, it means being there while they find their way.

👏👏👏

A witch hunt? I wonder who you see as the witches and who the hunters.

I have seen many posters beaten over the head with the same stick.