DHs "posh" sister

[BeatieBourke]

I know IABU but not sure what to do about it.

DHs family are mostly very nice. I get on exceptionally well with many of them. They're all much more middle class than me but that's fine, we all laugh about it (in both directions IYSWIM) and they generally like me as I do them.

DHs sister has always had a taste for properly posh things. All her friends have always been very grand, moneyed artisan types (think Hugh Fearnly whatsit and his ilk). Fine. She's nice and we have some stuff in common and get along well when we see each other.

She's fairly recently married a full on aristocrat. They're not famous but you'd know the name if I mentioned it (won't, obvs). They now live in a "Hall" (basically a small stately home) with furniture and art and wine dotted about that i couldt afford with 10 years salary. He's also a massive arsehole.

Whenever we're invited to stay with them (they live quite far away) it's always pitched as some kind of treat. Like we get to go and soak up their lovely life for a while. The first time we went I was up for it (because I'm nosey, if I'm honest, and who wouldn't like a real look at how the other half live?) But a year or so in and I find it all quite cold, sad, and awkward. Her husband isn't very nice to her and doesn't have any interest in her life or her family. She works full time and does everything around the (enourmous) house while he sits in his study writing his correspondence and waiting for tea on a tray. She is quite miserable, although has only really been honest about this once or twice and the rest of the time keeps up appearances. It's all just a bit, icky.

There's a general family tone of her being very impressive (she is but not because of who she married / their money), and having done very well for herself, and doesn't she work hard (she does, but needn't). She too can be a little hauty and condescending at times, if she's feeling below par or defensive. I think she lacks genuine confidence, despite being incredibly capable and seeming to have confidence in spades.

It all just makes me feel a bit rank tbh. I feel like her family (including me) should be shouting "get out, he treats you like shit!" but instead they're all quite deferential and keep shtum. I can't abide the fakery of it all when I'm expected to be impressed and grateful. I've stopped wanting to hang out with her or go and stay because it's all so weird.

What am I missing? How do I get rid of this chip on my shoulder? And what strategies would you put in place to deal with staying there (and having to say "Oh, it's beautiful!" at the huge, priceless-collectable-adorned but freezing and untouchable bedroom you're presented with, or listen to her husband drone on about his latest acquisitions while she works herself ragged to cook an impressive meal but refuses any help etc)?

AIBU to think this is a weird way to live? To want her to be happier? Or am I just a chippy scrubber? I've got myself in a tangle over it and don't know what to do.

You actually sound deeply insecure and very hung up on the fact they are better off than you. It’s the classic MN trope of this person has a better standard of living than me so I will convince myself that they must have an awful unhappy life.

@BeatieBourke, you stated

"What am I missing? How do I get rid of this chip on my shoulder? And what strategies would you put in place to deal with staying there (and having to say "Oh, it's beautiful!" at the huge, priceless-collectable-adorned but freezing and untouchable bedroom you're presented with, or listen to her husband drone on about his latest acquisitions while she works herself ragged to cook an impressive meal but refuses any help etc)?"

So, a chip on your shoulder, and again about her house.

Is it a weird way to live? No. It's her way to live and thus it's a way to live.

Betty, she didn't ask what you thought of her home and marriage. I can't side with you on this as even you yourself stated you were a bit unreasonable.

It doesn't come across as insecurity to me. More someone who feels out of their depth because the gulf in circumstance means they don't feel able to respond in the way they normally would.

It bothers you because it’s gaslighting. The whole family ignoring the fact that he’s abusive because he’s rich. I had similar in my family- only in this case it was an abusive sil who behaved in a ‘toxic- escorted off aeroplanes call the police’ way and the whole family made out it was a cultural thing. Have I missed what your dh’s take on it is?

@dollymixtured do I? OK.

There are a lot of people financially better off than me. I do envy some of them. I don't need to find an aristocratic git to be envious.

But OK.

I hope you feel able to do what you'd do for any friend, OP. I get that you feel a bit thrown by the differences in your lives, but can you take her for a coffeee or something? I dunno. It's not like I'm brave enough to do this sort of thing very often, but if you could manage to simply say "are you okay (SIL)? You haven't seemed quite yourself since you've been living here" maybe she'd appreciate that, if her family all seem blind to it. And if she doesn't appreciate it and reacts badly, then she might prefer you not to visit, which gives you an out.

You’re being asked to perform in their charade when you go and stay and that’s a very inauthentic thing to do. It wears on you and because she is an adult and there is a tacit agreement that nothing can be said.

Nothing can be said because it will cause unpleasantness and the charade must be upheld.

So you either consent to play or you remove yourself. Or somewhere in the middle.

@SweetSakura thank you. That is exactly the problem. I hadn't worked it out until you articulated in that way. I think I would behave differently if her DH wasn't who he is, and it sticks in my craw. I'm cross with myself about it.

@Etinoxaurus yes, gaslighting describes it well. It's as though the whole family are silently complicit. DH agrees with me re the situation (he's more damning of it than I am if anything) but is of the opinion that his Dsis has always made choices driven by thi gs he doesn't value, and that she always will. He talks with her often about things they share interest in (hobbies etc) and he ignores the rest.

Can you invite her directly for a weekend just the two of you? Get your DH to bugger off, stay with a mate for two nights, then get her drunk and have a proper chinwag?

@Bunce1 You've nailed it.

They are my choices. I'm going to screenshot your post and keep it for when I find myself in a situation that makes my teeth itch and I don't know how to respond.

The money and the mansion are just a side show, you feel uncomfortable because she has a dh who treats her like shit and is unhappy. It’s tricky because you’re an in law, but if it was my sil, I think I would be on to my dh to make sure he saw through the smokescreen too and was ready to be supportive if the opportunity presented.

@Bunce1 I agree. That's why I think there's not much help when it comes to tacit agreements. Either accept it and try and be there for someone, or don't make it worse if you notice how it's hard on her.

@BeatieBourke you sound like you've got a good sense of humour and a nice turn of phrase. Can't you just go and charmingly take the piss?

You genuinely sound lovely OP (not in a ‘well, you sound ‘lovely’’ MN snark sense!)

I know a good few UMC Hugh Fearnley types who love and respect their wives and know a good few who do not - as you’ve said, ‘class’ has nothing to do with it. That said, I do see how it’s harder for ‘gels’ to walk away from a marriage to a wealthy aristo / old Etonian type; regardless of their career, there remains an element of Pride and Prejudice and ‘marrying well’. Tricky to reject that ‘status’ (especially if there’s a lovely old pile in the mix). It’s why those women who did walk away (Diana’s mother for example) were depicted as ‘mad’ - must be to leave all that behind, right?! And extended families revel and bask in the reflected glory - of course they don’t want to tell the woman her Lord is actually an arse! If she leaves him, how will her parents use his name to underline their position?!

Not saying I agree with any of this but I’ve seen it happen a few times.

You sound like a good sort. Keep befriending your SIL. Raise a gentle eyebrow when she’s telling you about his arseholeness. Calmly question his fuckwittery when he does it in front of you. Make it clear she can talk to you. Passive aggressively ignore any status wrangling he does. Basically, ignore him and be there for her.

Hi Kate. Tell Wills to put the heating on

this seems on the money.

when it wears too thin you can always say “I’d rather not come because I feel I can’t be myself” (which her husband will interpret as, you’re too “common” to cope with their lifestyle) but at least gets you out of the frying pan. Or you could go one step further and say “I’d rather not come because you don’t seem like your old self since your marriage/when we visit, and I hate to see you unhappy/running yourself ragged. Please do come to us for a meal and a drink anytime you’re nearby though - we do miss you”.

Maybe one day she will be having such a torrid time of it she will actually come and confess that she’s in a difficult marriage, because it won’t feel like a leap as you already recognised the issue to some degree.

I have a similar situation with my BIL. He’s married an American whose dad has an ENORMOUS house/mansion and it’s so far away from normal life that it’s just mad. My DH has really struggled with it - we also get the invites which you feel you should be grateful for but are actually a total pain in the arse.

our way through is just to be ultra normal - like ultra ultra. I mash the potatoes for dinner and fill and empty the dishwasher (when the live in chef is on holiday 🤨 and actually even when they are there). The relationship is the important bit. I ignore all the nonsense and keep the lines of communication open because if it goes wrong then that is the most important thing.

it’s not easy and my kids hate it there (it’s like a less interesting national trust house where people tell you off more…) but we do it for our niece and some day it will all fucking blow up. So…

There is someone in my family like this. All private jets and treated like shit.

It's her choice. She's an adult, and, to her, the trade off is worth it (or she wouldn't stay).

You couldn't pay me enough, but hey, I'm not her.

I think you might be mistaking your discomfort as having its roots in their wealth when it actually doesn’t. I think your reaction to their wealth is about right- mildly envious at times, somewhat shocked at how a massive supposedly luxury house can feel so cold and lacking in pleasure despite its size. All normal reactions.

I think many families ignore abusive relationships and say things like ‘oh don’t they have a lovely holiday every year’ ‘aren’t their kids doing well’ or whatever when it’s quite clear the couple have a horrible dynamic. It’s so hard to bring up and it ends up being this weird group lie.

Dont beat yourself up though- until someone being abused or who is miserable in their marriage realises it or is willing to tackle it themselves, saying something rarely helps and often alienates them further. As you do like her of just keep seeing her one to one if you can and she might speak out when she feels able.

@ALittleHouselessMatch "It's like a less interesting national trust house where people tell you off more."

THIS! My DC can't stand being there. Totally pick up on the vibe. DS describes it as "a posh hotel where you're not paying so can't ask for anything and have to just sit there". He's never been to a posh hotel (or a hotel for that matter) but he's got his info from somewhere!

This, 100%.

I don't know what the right answer is, but I'd lean towards keeping communication open. If you feel able to, maybe ask her out for a coffee on her own every now and again? Or if you don't have that sort of relationship, when you see her, maybe do things to help her feel you're on her side. Talking about the time before she was married might help - you could start up conversations about what her and your husband's childhood was like? If you can turn that into a source of warmth between you, and a discussion of nice memories - or a discussion where you can make her feel as if you like things about her - then it may help her feel more as if you like her for who she is rather than for who her husband is.

You marry for money, you pay for the rest of your life.

I think if you take class and a Hall home out of it, essentially they give him a huge pass for his behaviour because of what he is and what he has. And once you realize they're prepared to do that, it's impossible to see it any other way.

DHs family are mostly very nice. I get on exceptionally well with many of them. They're all much more middle class than me but that's fine, we all laugh about it (in both directions IYSWIM) and they generally like me as I do them.

Since you get on well, can you not mention that SIL doesn't seem very happy? Or even that you find her DH unpleasant? Surely they're not going to fall out with you if you do? I dunno. They're surely not completely stupid. They might have their heads in the sand, but maybe if you gave this situation some oxygen it might help? And if they bring out the succesfulness and the house and everything, just mention that they don't necessarily bring happiness if the relationship isn't good.

I don’t think bunce is right. Not aristos but I’ve met some wealthy privileged people and some fairly senior people and I’d take the same line with any of them if a family members partner (and do with one in my family who sounds similar minus the aristocracy, because bleugh to that attitude)- sil serves dinner and you say that looks amazing, so Rupert Sebastian the 3rd which bit of this did you do? Are these your perfectly fluffy potatoes? Every. Time. Next time you ‘discover’ he can’t cook. What? Not at all? Honestly have you never boiled an egg? Maybe we should all try tomorrow morning, nobody English should die without being able to boil an egg, it’s a fundamental character flaw. What about travel wehn you were young? You didn’t, or you expected cooked breakfast? You do realise that’s not travel (are they planning dc, if so-) how will you cope with learning your children slept on a beach in Australia for a week? Perhaps you should start therapy now.
etc etc. when he arrives for dinner, say haven’t seen you all day, I expect you were dusting. That would take all day here. Ever broken anything? You don’t do the dusting? Ever? Oh I guess you have someone. That sounds nice. What?? Sil does IT ALL? Bloody hell, that would be a full time job on top of her full time job, plus it sounds like Dickensian misery. Do you also have 5 year olds on closets somewhere that you boot out of bed at 5am to clean the chimneys?! Sil why don’t you get someone in? Surely it’s not because of money, you only get one life. Anyway Rupert Sebastian I hope at the very least you appreciate the gem you’ve got here, drudging away despite her very impressive job to keep you in the style to which you’re accustomed. Some men would be ashamed but hey ho.

tbe trick is not to sound nasty or bitter, to cloak it all in light hearted fun! Don’t settle in for a life of putting up with tosser. I do this with some friends husbands, self employed who tell me (who is salaried) how great being self employed is. ‘Oh hahaa is it? I guess you’d get to choose your own holidays- hmm aren’t you too busy working to take holidays (he hardly ever goes with his wife and kids). Anyway my Dh doesn’t have to stay up past midnight finishing stuff for my company so he wouldn’t want me self employed (his wife does admin etc for him and isn’t that valued for very hard work)- poke poke poke don’t bother trying to come all superior on me. We all still get on well, like i said the trick is a light hearted take on I will not put up with this crap.

No one, but no one, rates their worth as highly as the aristocrat; they make their spouse, who’s married up, work like a dog to earn the right to the married lifestyle.

He brings the posh life; she sweats to keep it going. It’s not terribly attractive but it happens a lot in that pretty world.

The men do not very much at the best of times - private income - but the super-achiever they married has to run the house as is the tradition, plus bang out the kids. Workload is about 20:80.

What did he see in the capable, self-supporting, smart, successful woman? Exactly.

I find with the truly posh that they’re so permeated with position it rubs off on other people when you’re with them. That’s why you’re in suspended disbelief when you’re there - you’re not dazzled by the Sevres, you’ve been spellbound by his self-confidence.

He sounds a bit rubbish. SIL shouldn’t stop work - if they split all his assets are in trust so she and DC won’t get a penny.