Was I Unreasonable - wheelchair Space

[Nicetomeetyou25]

Hi, My DC ( 10 ) is a wheelchair user, we have to take public transport to school and honestly where we live is a nightmare. Some of the London buses still have a very small area where wheelchairs and pushchairs can go. I know else where there is no priority but on London buses it is stated very clearly wheelchairs are priority and pushchair need to be prepared to fold. School runs can be crazy because there tends to be a lot of pushchairs. I never ask a pushchair to get off and always wait for a bus that we can fit on. Every day a particular school mum beats me to the bus stop and she really does make sure she stands in the correct place to get on first and I usually allow this.

yesterday I could not be late home so I collected DC a tiny bit early and took them to the bus stop before the school bus stop. Got on bus and we arrived at the bus stop with usual pram getting on ( I should have added that she has a double stroller )

I had placed DC in the correct wheelchair position so sideways with back against the wall where stairs are as it is how the buses even say you have to.
she asks me to turn DC around so there was more space for her to get in side by side. I refused. She said she didn’t understand why I wouldn’t. I explained that I wasn’t willing to change position as it wasn’t safe.
She goes to bus driver and kicks off to advice him that there was enough space of I just turned the wheelchair around and placed it behind the pole.
she got off in a bit of a strop and called me selfish.
was I being unreasonable ?

She's an idiot and you were 100% right

@Nicetomeetyou25 A Wheelchair trumps double buggy - Of course you were not being unreasonable!
Buggies are massive these days- Especially double ones.

Why was it not safe for you to turn the chair around?

Wheelchairs have to be correctly positioned in order to be able to travel safely

The statutory walking distance isn’t relevant in this case. A pupil who can’t reasonably be expected to walk to school due to their disability or SEN qualifies for transport even if they live closer than the statutory walking distance. An EHCP isn’t necessary either.

For those who're saying a double buggy isn't a choice, it's absolutely a choice. You do know that you can also carry a baby/toddler? I used a sling for many years.

Exactly and even if having a double isn’t a choice the size/style you have is

The bus drivers should be intervening and making people with buggies move for wheelchair users. Every single time. It’s part of their job.

Buggies fold down - even bloody massive ones. They’re designed to do so. Even if other parents seem to behave as if they don’t. If you don’t want to fold your buggy down, then the signage is perfectly clear that wheelchair users have priority. Parents with buggies can use the space if no wheelchair user requires it. But it’s not their space.

I think you need to stop deferring to parents with buggies. You should contact the bus company every single time a bus driver refuses to do their job and tell the parent to vacate the wheelchair space. Tweet them. Every time. They’ll sort out their drivers.

Back in the day when DS1 was a baby, you always had to fold the buggy to get on the bus. There was no wheelchair provision to repurpose for buggies. Parents coped. I didn’t have a car. DS and I got on a lot of buses. With shopping and everything. All the other parents did.

It’s nice to not have to fold your buggy down. much better than it was back in the day. But sometimes you just have to, because wheelchair users need to use the space.

And I haven’t forgotten what it’s like with a buggy. Because I have a toddler and no longer have a car so I get public transport all the time with a buggy. Sometimes I have to fold it down. Sometimes I have to get off if I have too much stuff in the basket to fold up. That’s just life.

YANBU. At all.

She is an ableist selfish woman.

Absolutely YOU WERE NOT AND ARE NOT UNREASONABLE. Disabilities are protected characteristics. Being an infant is NOT a protected characteristic.

Think some people need to look up the definition of equity in order to fully understand and grasp equality.

The mind boggles sometimes, it really does 🤯

I’d have told her to fuck right off and called her CF.

So those selfish ignorant parents get on before you? No wonder we have some ghastly children around nowadays.

So you’d be happy for YOUR DC to be put in an unsafe position? This is selfish entitlement. And a complete lack of imagination or empathy.

Nah, she was wrong. I’ve been on buses & had to move for a wheelchair. I understand people may feel frustrated & for some ppl hence the lady above with the prem twins it’d be impossible plus she’s always taken priority pushing in front. Well it’s a spot for you. She has to wait.

The lady with the premature twins has a pretty short period where she might struggle like that. And had other options - like a sling and an easy to fold buggy. Or both infants in a sling. They grow remarkably fast and it gets easier. Plus people can and do help you with small children.

Everything is bloody hard with a newborn - more so with two. But it is not comparable to having to use a wheelchair.

@EasterIsland i can’t see why it would be unsafe but I wasn’t there. I think the issue is, buses aren’t fit for purpose. The op said the lady has a double buggy so that’s not easy either. Buses putting people in this position is the issue. I don’t think it’s hard to imagine the mum with the double buggy doesn’t have the easiest mornings either.

You don’t need to have been there to know it’s always unsafe for a wheelchair not to be positioned as it is supposed to be. It is never safe for the wheelchair to face sideways on a bus.

Having multiples isn’t easy, but it also isn’t comparable to having a disabled child.

So the child in the pushchair has been fully assessed by the op have they?
The day I tried to get a bus, I’d been denied 4 buses (one every 15 minutes) so had waited in the rain with premature twins for over an hour. I just think there’s a bigger picture and comparing who has it hardest isn’t helpful. Wheelchair should take priority but that doesn’t mean we can’t be sympathetic to the other person unable to access the bus service.

Absolutely not unreasonable. It is quite clear those spaces are for wheelchairs first and foremost. I have folded my buggy, or not got on a bus/got off a bus if someone with a wheelchair requires the space. People do not choose to have disabilities so let's not make things more difficult from them.

I remember when I was kid/teenager and there was no space and steps on to the bus I wondered where all the prams were then, it is an privilege not a right to be able to take your pram on the bus. Pain in the neck if you're running late/whatever but it is what it is. The driver should also back you on this.

The OP doesn’t need to assess the child in the pushchair. Why would they? Unless the pushchair was being used as a wheelchair, in which case a) I’m sure the mother would have said so, and b) it would have had a sign on it saying so the wheelchair always takes priority.

You didn’t have to wait you could have folded (and yes I have multiples and know it isn’t easy) or used a sling and a single. Someone in a wheelchair doesn’t have that option.

@JustKeepBuilding how do you hold 2 floppy newborn babies (even with one in a sling) while folding a pushchair? Not something I ever worked out but maybe you have extra arms.

i think it’s fairly outrageous the op doesn’t qualify for support getting her dc to school.

Well you could have both in a sling. Or you could ask one of the other parents (given it’s school pick up time they are presumably other people around) to hold one baby whilst the other is in a sling - in my experience others are willing to help. Or you could hold one baby in one arm, the other baby in the sling and fold the buggy with your other arm (yes it takes practice to fold one handed) and if you need help ask for it.

@JustKeepBuilding mine were too small for sling minimum weights and no I didn’t like handing them to random people to hold but I bow to your superior skills.

So you hold DC and ask someone else if they would kindly help fold your buggy.

Given the choice of standing in the rain for an hour and asking another school parent to help by holding DC or folding the buggy I know which I would choose. If you would choose differently, that’s perfectly fine of course, but it’s a choice. A choice someone in a wheelchair doesn’t have.

Regarding the twin situation, I understand it’s difficult which is why I never anyone to move for us - read the thread. Every day I wait my turn.
this time I was already on the bus so For once it was her then to wait for the other bus. The reason I didn’t move is because no matter YOUR situation a wheelchair side ways on any bus is dangerous. If the bus came to a halt my already disabled vunerable DC would be flung backwards and potentially seriously hurt.

Its unsafe as during any harsh braking the wheelchair wouldn’t remind stationery, so not only would the user be at risk of injury, other passengers on the bus would also be put at risk. Wheelchair spaces aren’t designed in a certain way for absolutely no reason.