Was I Unreasonable - wheelchair Space

[Nicetomeetyou25]

Hi, My DC ( 10 ) is a wheelchair user, we have to take public transport to school and honestly where we live is a nightmare. Some of the London buses still have a very small area where wheelchairs and pushchairs can go. I know else where there is no priority but on London buses it is stated very clearly wheelchairs are priority and pushchair need to be prepared to fold. School runs can be crazy because there tends to be a lot of pushchairs. I never ask a pushchair to get off and always wait for a bus that we can fit on. Every day a particular school mum beats me to the bus stop and she really does make sure she stands in the correct place to get on first and I usually allow this.

yesterday I could not be late home so I collected DC a tiny bit early and took them to the bus stop before the school bus stop. Got on bus and we arrived at the bus stop with usual pram getting on ( I should have added that she has a double stroller )

I had placed DC in the correct wheelchair position so sideways with back against the wall where stairs are as it is how the buses even say you have to.
she asks me to turn DC around so there was more space for her to get in side by side. I refused. She said she didn’t understand why I wouldn’t. I explained that I wasn’t willing to change position as it wasn’t safe.
She goes to bus driver and kicks off to advice him that there was enough space of I just turned the wheelchair around and placed it behind the pole.
she got off in a bit of a strop and called me selfish.
was I being unreasonable ?

Oh dear me!

I'm genuinely baffled by this comment.

i do think you should probably be reporting the driver, because this needs to be eforced and you shouldn't have all this rigamarole just to be able to travel to and from school when there are clear guidelines in place.

The amount of drama drivers will cause if someone doesn't tap their card, needs to the same effort the apply to ensuring wheelchairs have priority. the only way to get the behaviour in society changed is by following the rule!

The bus drivers can’t really win. They are on super tight schedules in charge of massive vehicles and responsible for the safety of all passengers on board for a kick in the arse off minimum wage.

If they ask buggy person to get off the bus they’ll often refuse and bus will be late. Lots of complaints. Throws off the whole days schedule as if you don’t have your legally mandated (unpaid) break and then go on to have an accident the driver will be liable.

The only thing you can do is complain every time and they will learn they have to make wheelchairs a priority on that route.

In the politest way I can say, f her. People argued the case for years for that safe disabled access. Sick of this entitled attitude.

Ask the school to wrote a letter of support stating the change and that she can't access pe or walk without aids and how limited that is time and distance wise. If you are still struggling there may be a disability charity near you or CAB or equivalent who could help. Definitely appeal within the time frame as the amount of successful appeals is crazy high.

You're defo not being unreasonable. I live in london too and have an 8 month old who I often take out on the bus. If a wheelchair user needs the space I ALWAYS get off without hesitation. It even says on the signs that wheelchairs have priority.

Going forward you should insist on the space even if she's on the bus first with her buggy. She can wait for the next one. Also you were right not to compromise your son's safety because of her demands.

I've said this before but there should be a charge for unfolded buggies in the wheelchair space. Some thing like £10 with exemptions for some people, SEN buggies, multiple births etc.

People will soon start learning to fold.

It's all sorted don't sweat it

I am disabled and this makes my blood boil.
When I use to use my blue badge I would get shouted out and abused.

There was a T shirt which said something along the lines of 'You have my parking space, do you want my disability too?'.
Only a small proportion of disabled people work and most of that is down to accessibility. I had to give up a role last year as the company was based on the 5th floor and the lift frequently broke down. You need for your DC to see inclusion. Reasonable adjustments are not much to ask.

I think big girl pants on and tell this entitled madam to move!

Please stop letting this dreadful cheeky rude cow take your space on the bus.

Most people do not NEED a pram. I use the bus daily for nursery drop off and stopped using the pram when we were missing busses and I was late to work due to lack of pram space. I either carried DD or used a sling when I couldn't be bothered to fold a pram.

They don’t usually if I’m not on the bus and asking for the space, which is why I don’t bother arguing

If you have a right to a space on the bus then maybe start arguing. Right now your son needs you to advocate for him, but soon enough he will be travelling independently. Wouldn't it be better if he has the confidence to speak up for what he is entitled to? You modelling that behaviour now will help give him that confidence. Wheelchair users have priority for a reason.

That said, I can understand if you're plain weary of always having to fight and make noise when you just want to go about your daily life.

OP of course you're not being unreasonable. The space is for wheelchair users and is allowed to be used by buggies ONLY while it's not needed for.a wheelchair user. Therefore yours and your daughters needs absolutely trump hers with her buggy.
However whenever these threads come up there is always some wanky comment like this:

sashh · Today 10:40

I've said this before but there should be a charge for unfolded buggies in the wheelchair space. Some thing like £10 with exemptions for some people, SEN buggies, multiple births etc.

People will soon start learning to fold.

Wtf should you have to fold your buggy or pay a charge? I have twins when they were tiny we used to use the bus, we would use yhe wheelchair space and once or twice it was needed so we GOT OFF THE BUS! What the hell is wrong with that? I could not have held 2 babies alone while folding a buggy. So.in your world I can't use the bus at all? Why? I was happy to.get off if needed!!! And I realise you said exemptions for twins but that makes it even more nonsense surely? All that would happen then is twats who happen.to have twins would feel more entitled to the space that isn't theirs!

Also you'd get twice the arguing
"I'm not moving I've paid extra to be in this space"
"I have twins so I don't have to pay, so that means I'm allowed here more than she is with one baby"
etc etc etc

Sad to hear that. So easy for the driver to tell her you have priority when you're both at the same stop.

That is really not practical. no-one should have to disclose their medical history in a public place. I didn't have a car when my first child was a baby and used the bus and pram a lot. If a wheelchair required the space I would always, always move/get off but I suffer from chronic back pain and I could neither manage to hold or it be safe to hold my baby on a bumpy bus journey. What would you have people do, spend ages declaring their needs/case in a queue to get on?

The person with the buggy is in the wrong and being selfish. More flexible space on buses and people being educated to actually treat those who have disabilities with the proper equality and value they should have and enabling access is paramount.

I have not read the full thread OP and perhaps this has been mentioned but you absolutely should get on a bus with your child's wheelchair. A buggy should move, doesn't matter if the parent was ther ebefore you. That is a priority area for wheelchairs. When I had small children, there have been times I've gotten off the bus to let a wheelchair on. Not because I'm a martyr (far from it). But I would rather a few moments inconvenience over a lifetime of being disabled. I cannot understand why people wouldn't feel the same way. At the very least, take your children out of the buggy and fold it up.

That woman will now make it her mission to get to the busstop first. If i were you, I'd get on and explain to the bus driver that you need the buggy owners to make space for your child's wheelchair, which is precisely why those spaces are there. Not for buggies. (of course buggies can use those spaces but not at the expense of wheelchair users).

I was on a bus once where a wheelchair user did not park against the backrest (she was being nice trying to accommodate entitled pushchair/not make a fuss). The bus stopped suddenly and she went over the back of the wheelchair. It was horrible.

That wouldn't be reasonable.

Buggies should ALWAYS be moved if a wheelchair user needs the space. No question. And of course the OP was entirely reasonable in insisting that her child travel in the safest possible position.

However, the wheelchair space is often empty and if it is, there is no reason why someone shouldn't put their buggy there. Most buggies can be folded, but if your buggy contains e.g. your young baby and your sleeping two year old, then waking them up, folding the buggy, holding the buggy, bags and both children and then getting on and off the bus is no joke. Not everyone has a car and some distances aren't easily walkable.

You can’t for H&S reasons. Even if you wanted to the driver wouldn’t/shouldn’t allow it for that reason.

A driver didn’t let me on once because someone had a TROLLEY in the space
I made an absolute scene and complained to TFL. Wanker.

This.

Believe it when experts in ergonomics and safety work for years over these safe accessible spaces and someone with a buggy storming about thinks they know better. Disgusting entitled attitude and plays into the shit victimhood of today when the real victims are just trying to get on with it and get to work etc. without you know, maybe injuring themselves or feeling like they don't belong due to a hand of an illness/disability.

What type of trolley? What do you expect the wheelchair user to do when they get on. Oh, I know they can just wait in the rain for an endless queue of buses with no space because of buggies etc using it.

If you've been refused home to school transport on distance grounds, your council is acting unlawfully. The law is very clear that distance is irrelevant when people qualify on mobility grounds. I would suggest you reapply and, if they refuse, use the internal appeal mechanism. If that doesn't work, contact SOS SEN about threatening judicial review.

Have a look at the Department for Education official guidance on this, especially paragraph 16 which says that statutory walking distances should not be taken into account when pupils are eligible on disability grounds.

Its not reasonable that abled bodied people choose to exclude others from public transport.

So yes, I'd charge able bodied people who decline to fold up the push chair rather than punish disabled travelers for the selfishness of some able bodied. Perhaps that would encourage some of the able bodied passengers to speak up and support others rather than going deaf and blind the moment a disabled passenger attempts to use public transport.