Was I Unreasonable - wheelchair Space

[Nicetomeetyou25]

Hi, My DC ( 10 ) is a wheelchair user, we have to take public transport to school and honestly where we live is a nightmare. Some of the London buses still have a very small area where wheelchairs and pushchairs can go. I know else where there is no priority but on London buses it is stated very clearly wheelchairs are priority and pushchair need to be prepared to fold. School runs can be crazy because there tends to be a lot of pushchairs. I never ask a pushchair to get off and always wait for a bus that we can fit on. Every day a particular school mum beats me to the bus stop and she really does make sure she stands in the correct place to get on first and I usually allow this.

yesterday I could not be late home so I collected DC a tiny bit early and took them to the bus stop before the school bus stop. Got on bus and we arrived at the bus stop with usual pram getting on ( I should have added that she has a double stroller )

I had placed DC in the correct wheelchair position so sideways with back against the wall where stairs are as it is how the buses even say you have to.
she asks me to turn DC around so there was more space for her to get in side by side. I refused. She said she didn’t understand why I wouldn’t. I explained that I wasn’t willing to change position as it wasn’t safe.
She goes to bus driver and kicks off to advice him that there was enough space of I just turned the wheelchair around and placed it behind the pole.
she got off in a bit of a strop and called me selfish.
was I being unreasonable ?

Is the issue that they argue that your child isn't at the nearest suitable school?

One of the unfortunate things you learn with a disability or caring for someone with a disability is that you need to become a lot more assertive just to get some of the rights that others take for granted.

Practice speaking up, find some assertiveness coaching (there are training videos on line) if you can and learn as much as you can about your rights on public transport, elsewhere and when navigating the health care, education and benefits systems.

Look for networks/groups of parents in similar situations and learn from their experiences - they can be a gold mine of support and practical advice.

Its not right but when so very few able bodied people are willing to speak up on a bus its not surprising that other public services get away with second rate services provision to those without sharp elbows. DWP assessments in particular are shockingly bad - definitely get advice on that front with respect to tribunals.

Having a personal transport budget is nothing to do with public transport. A personal transport budget is specifically for transport to and from school. School transport is rightly not available to members of the public.

The thing is, though, that (a) that is a choice they have made and (b) it is temporary. You can't say either of those things about wheelchair users.

As people have suggested, write to the bus company and ask them to take steps to ensure all their drivers are properly trained and enforce the rules, otherwise tell them you will be reporting them to the licensing authorities.

You stick to your guns. If the bus was in an accident and the wheelchair wasn’t placed properly and someone got hurt you wouldn’t be able to make a claim for injuries sustained. If someone else got hurt by the wheelchair, you may have claims against you. It is a safety issue and she can fold her wheelchair up or wait.

Absolutely. It's a shame that wheelchair users and buggies are in 'competition', as it were, for the same spaces (for example, we're about to get a second car as getting two small children around everyday on busy buses is proving too stressful). It would be nice if buses could be redesigned with more folding seats to make more space for both. But so long as they are using the same spaces, wheelchair users need to have their priority respected. There are lots of options open to buggy users that wheelchair users don't have. I do feel for parents who can't drive in locations where public transport is infrequent and unreliable though, but I assume many wheelchair users will also be in the same position.

Since when did prams have right of wheelchair space?

Aside from which, don't strollers fold up?

Of course YANBU. I'm ashamed for her.

Something tells me @Orangepolentacake is the wheelchair user.

Take photos next time you are refused. Contact bus company to warn drivers. Ask bus company to highlight problem by having window stickers saying who has priority on the window by the entrance. Write to your MP .

If the issue is prams taking up space they shouldn't be, unfortunately you can't go taking pictures of other people's children. (Unless, apparently, you're a bloke hanging around a school dressed in girls' uniform and follow them onto the bus with a camera, but I digress).

No matter how arrogant and self-centred the parents may be, this isn't the child's fault.

No not the children but the push hairs.

pushhairs

Give up pushchairs

It is common knowledge that wheelchairs take priority on buses. I am about to have my first child, and 'easy to fold' was top of the criteria list for a pushchair as I know I will be taking it on the bus a lot. She was completely in the wrong to kick up a fuss, but it sounds like the bus driver did the right thing by ignoring her. She just embarrassed herself in front of a whole busload of people. That said, I imagine it is a nightmare to transport two small children at peak time, but compromising a wheelchair user's safety is not the answer.

Don't know if this has been said but it's the law that you get the wheelchair space and buggies are required to move to give you this space. This doesn't apply if a wheelchair is already using the space.

This is referring to using a buggy on buses...

'All buses have a wheelchair space available. By law, wheelchair users have priority over the space as it is the only place they can travel safely. When a wheelchair user is not using the space, you can use it on a first come first served basis.
If a wheelchair user wishes to board a bus, you should share the space, fold your buggy or move. You will not be asked to leave the bus, but you may choose to do so. If you wish to board the next bus instead, the driver will issue you a transfer ticket so you don't need to pay a double fare.'
Might be worth stating to the driver that you need the space and it's the law. If he shrugs ask for their name and put it into your phone.

You need to make a complaint if he won't uphold the law they are discriminating against your child.

Do this every time, you don't have to make a fuss or be loud but you do need to make sure the driver is abiding by the law. He has to adhere to traffic law, they don't get to pick and choose which bits of law they obey!

This might need to be from above. They are just wanting an easy drive with no confrontation. Complain to the bus company every time.

I get so cross when people think disability is an option or a choice.

You've missed the point completely. Buses are crash tested and have provided a safe space for wheelchair users. To compromise on this safe space means that wheelchair user would be at risk if a collision occurred.

They don't get a choice. Able bodied people with buggies and babies do. Yes it's more effort but it is important for safely and not just a social nicety.

I would’ve moved definitely if I had a double stroller (in what world do they fit easily on buses with other pushchairs etc?) and got off the bus if necessary too because I’m not selfish…. Bus driver should back you up.

Until approx 15 years ago and DB met his then GF whose DF is a paraplegic in a wheelchair, I had knowledge but this has improved 10 fold since I’ve known him and his family. He lives in SW England with his family, would love to visit his DD and my DB in London but train but has only done this once or twice as still, the step free access and assistance from public transport staff would be minimal we think even if he had a carer (family) travel with him.

He lives in a fairly flat, wide city where he can be dropped off to go to classes, cafes etc but still though many are wheelchair accessible lots aren’t. He does enjoy shopping in an actual shop as opposed uk online and luckily staff in the local department store know him fairly well so are accommodating. The amount of people which really annoy me are those who assume that as he’s in a wheelchair he can’t speak/brain damaged etc! Definitely not the case, yes he has cerebral palsy and has had a stroke but prior to the stroke was a respected professional person who could drive and get around as well as an able bodied person!

OP - I hope you get more help and assistance re a car for your DD. Agreed with a PP that as your DD matures she’ll need to navigate this area more herself but luckily you’ve got her back for now. Funnily enough, DB and SIL live in Hackney too but I don’t know much about buses and wheelchair users there!

GonnaGetGoingReturns · Today 13:00

I would’ve moved definitely if I had a double stroller (in what world do they fit easily on buses with other pushchairs etc?) and got off the bus if necessary too because I’m not selfish…. Bus driver should back you up.

What is the point of this comment?
Of course she should have got off and given the space up but are you saying double strollers shouldn't use buses because they don't fit easily? I mean they don't bloody fit easily ANYWHERE. Should twin parents have to just stay at home?
It's a bloody pain in the arse getting around with 2 babies but what else can you do? You can't exactly just take 1 of them when you need to go out!
And actually having children is a choice but having 2 (or even 3!) at once isn't.
I'm not suggesting that twin parents get special treatment but I dont think people should be suggesting we shouldn't get on buses FGS!

Assuming dd under a consultant or nurse lead - get them to wrote a letter about her current state of health and mobility. Also even a statement from school that dc is now a wheelchair user. You can add this info even if submitted MR.
Also ask for an emergency review of ehcp as no longer appropriate to her needs

What are you on about? Read my post. It was a shopping trolley that could’ve easily been moved. So the trolley has priority because the driver can’t be bothered to do their job?

I would never question a wheelchair user who, rightly, has priority over buggies and, I can only hope, shopping trolleys!

^^ 👏

Sorry if I'm repeating other people but, unfortuanately, I think you have to start making a 'fuss' . Otherwise you are showing your daughter that she should not stand up for herself and that she should be minimizing the effect of her disabilities on other places. If you are in a wheelchair you have to feel confident to ask for help and stand up for yourself.

Once you start asserting yourself I'm sure you will get used to it. You have to practice being cool, calm and firm.

If you so regularly run into the same woman then I presume that a lot of the other bus users you run into are regulars too. Id imagine at the moment they know you as a pushover, you need to change this and make sure they know you will insist on using the wheelchair spot.

I'd ask the school to put out a notice if possible and I'd start taking photos and reporting any bus drivers that don't help you. I know it's difficult for them but it's part of their job.

@Nicetomeetyou25

this has to STOP!!

Seriously, I know you've said you're going to try to locate your back bone, which is great! So start with this. DD has a priority space on the FIRST bus! She didn't ask to be disabled, she has enough to contend with in life without letting ANYONE make her feel like a second class person. I'm furious on her (& your) behalf. Find your anger & your voice, I'll be standing right beside you!!

I'm actually not that great at standing up for myself in these types of situations, but 'nobody puts baby in the corner'. add in a child and I find my voice. Find your anger!

@Nicetomeetyou25

If you don't get much advice on that on this thread, start a new one in the SEN section & you'll get advice if your rights, what to say etc. Best of luck for that!