Page 19 | AIBU not to explain why a 7yr old can't go in the gents?

FlyingPi · 2023-01-25T23:42:13+00:00

I'm sure this has been discussed before. When we're out and my boy needs the toilet, I make him come into the Ladies with me. Problem is, he's starting to complain about it and wants to go in the Gents on his own. I have let him do this in one particular place where there's never anyone about, so I knew he wouldn't encounter anyone at the urinals. I'm always honest with him but I don't quite know how to explain why I'm not letting him do this anywhere else, like at the swimming pool/gym toilets. He knows about the Pants rules and personal space and consent but I don't exactly want to spell out what I'm worried about. What do you tell your kids?

Katekeeprunning · 26/01/2023 19:37

2bazookas · 26/01/2023 16:07

You say to him "In you go. If anyone asks if are you on your own, say " No, my Mum is right outside".

My husband had already taken the sons in the gents so they knew
they could either use a urinal or a normal lav in a stalland close the door for privacy.

When he's out and about with you, is exactly the time he should start using the gents on his own. Knowing that you're right outside is his protection and security. This is where he learns a little independence and confidence among adult strangers. Unconsciously, he notices what is normal safe behaviour and etiquette in the gents. All perfectly safe because you're right outside, and if he didnt reappear in 2 minutes you'd open the door a bit and shout "Hurry up, Bob"

Then in a few years time when he's out and about unsupervised, A) he's not afraid to use a public toilet and B) he will instantly recognise any behaviour he encounters which is NOT the everyday normal in the gents that he's got used to. That instinctive recognition is his first-line defence.

      Keeping kids in cotton wool doesn't make them safe, it just makes them helpless. Their best protection is to be  competent, experienced and savvy.

This ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️

AnOldCynic · 26/01/2023 19:42

An 11 year old boy was raped in the mens toilets in the Arndale Centre, Manchester. As was a 14 year old boy. If you do let your young sons go in on their own just be very aware.

Bellevu · 26/01/2023 19:50

Why are so many women ok with their sons in female toilets, but not happy to accompany their boys into the men's toilets? You're uncomfortable with the idea of going into the men's but dismiss others worry.

If your son needs to be accompanied, go with them to the male loo and leave girls and women to have an intimate space away from the male gaze.

TimeToFlyNow · 26/01/2023 19:52

Bellevu · 26/01/2023 19:50

Why are so many women ok with their sons in female toilets, but not happy to accompany their boys into the men's toilets? You're uncomfortable with the idea of going into the men's but dismiss others worry.

If your son needs to be accompanied, go with them to the male loo and leave girls and women to have an intimate space away from the male gaze.

I'm a grown adult, men should not have to put up with grown adult women in the male toilets any more than women should have to put up with adult men in the women's

Plenty of men take their young daughters into the men's toilets with them anyway

CellophaneFlower · 26/01/2023 19:53

2bazookas · 26/01/2023 16:07

You say to him "In you go. If anyone asks if are you on your own, say " No, my Mum is right outside".

My husband had already taken the sons in the gents so they knew
they could either use a urinal or a normal lav in a stalland close the door for privacy.

When he's out and about with you, is exactly the time he should start using the gents on his own. Knowing that you're right outside is his protection and security. This is where he learns a little independence and confidence among adult strangers. Unconsciously, he notices what is normal safe behaviour and etiquette in the gents. All perfectly safe because you're right outside, and if he didnt reappear in 2 minutes you'd open the door a bit and shout "Hurry up, Bob"

Then in a few years time when he's out and about unsupervised, A) he's not afraid to use a public toilet and B) he will instantly recognise any behaviour he encounters which is NOT the everyday normal in the gents that he's got used to. That instinctive recognition is his first-line defence.

      Keeping kids in cotton wool doesn't make them safe, it just makes them helpless. Their best protection is to be  competent, experienced and savvy.

We can still educate our kids about what isn't appropriate behaviour without potentially exposing them to it though.

Bob doesn't need to be in a situation where he could be violated to learn that it's wrong.

bythere · 26/01/2023 20:01

@Bellevu It's more important for the adults to be separated, so they have privacy from each other.

GrandTheftWalrus · 26/01/2023 20:33

For those asking why my daughter uses the disabled toilet, she has sensory issues and the hand dryers scare her. I also need to use to the disabled toilets for reasons I am not going into here, but I have my own key etc.

We are currently waiting on a diagnosis for her. But she will use the main toilets as well and like I say I go in after 5 mins to make sure she is okay.

TheOrigRights · 26/01/2023 21:31

GrandTheftWalrus · 26/01/2023 20:33

For those asking why my daughter uses the disabled toilet, she has sensory issues and the hand dryers scare her. I also need to use to the disabled toilets for reasons I am not going into here, but I have my own key etc.

We are currently waiting on a diagnosis for her. But she will use the main toilets as well and like I say I go in after 5 mins to make sure she is okay.

It would have been useful to have said that. As a person with a Radar key you must know how contentious the issue of misuse of disabled loos is.

I acknowledge you say you are in the process of getting a diagnosis for your DD, but fear of hand dryers in itself isn't a reason to use the disabled loo. I think all young children are scared of those crazy loud dryers which can be set off by them just being near them.

GrandTheftWalrus · 26/01/2023 21:38

TheOrigRights · 26/01/2023 21:31

It would have been useful to have said that. As a person with a Radar key you must know how contentious the issue of misuse of disabled loos is.

I acknowledge you say you are in the process of getting a diagnosis for your DD, but fear of hand dryers in itself isn't a reason to use the disabled loo. I think all young children are scared of those crazy loud dryers which can be set off by them just being near them.

Show quote history

Tbh it's not just being scared of them, they can cause a meltdown. I suspect autism however as we have no diagnosis I don't like to say that.

I would've returned and said this earlier however I was at work when I first put my comment and then at work just now so only just got back to the thread.

Apologies for the drip feed.

TheOrigRights · 26/01/2023 21:40

@GrandTheftWalrus thank you for clarifying. I wish your DD all the best. And you!

Sux2buthen · 26/01/2023 22:13

Bellevu · 26/01/2023 19:50

Why are so many women ok with their sons in female toilets, but not happy to accompany their boys into the men's toilets? You're uncomfortable with the idea of going into the men's but dismiss others worry.

If your son needs to be accompanied, go with them to the male loo and leave girls and women to have an intimate space away from the male gaze.

A 7 year old does not have the 'male gaze' (stupid term).
I'm not uncomfortable going into the mens, I have many times. Mostly at take that concerts because the queue is shorter but anyway, I'm not uncomfortable taking my son in there, im just happy to bring him in with me. And will continue to do so until he or I see fit

realmsofglory · 26/01/2023 23:01

It is not hard to understand. Male toilets are for men and boys, Female toilets for women and girls and disabled toilets are for disabled people. I am happy to accept that a concession can be made for young child who needs help using the toilet. Not a 7 year old who i would not think of as a mid age child and has been toiletting independently at school for around 3 years. And no it s not usual in the schools i have had any dealings with for kids this old to get changed in mixed sex groups

Jimboscott0115 · 26/01/2023 23:04

He's perfectly old enough to be going to the Gents, this attitude that there's a paedo around every corner really annoys me. Yes, be careful but come on - he's old enough to go to the toilet with you waiting outside the entrance to them.

JustAnotherManicMomday · 26/01/2023 23:44

I used to stand outside the door as he went in I would speak to him, then everytime someone was in or out I would ask if his OK or make chit chat so he knew I was there but so did a yone going in. A good idea is stand outside for a couple minutes before he goes in to get an idea of who went in just before as an idea when to expect him out. Can also talk to him about telling you how long his going to be, this with my son was how many people are in there already. He would tell me 3 minutes for 3 people.

Quia · 26/01/2023 23:54

Bellevu · 26/01/2023 19:50

Why are so many women ok with their sons in female toilets, but not happy to accompany their boys into the men's toilets? You're uncomfortable with the idea of going into the men's but dismiss others worry.

If your son needs to be accompanied, go with them to the male loo and leave girls and women to have an intimate space away from the male gaze.

The "male gaze"? What is this dreadful toxic thing? At what point does it develop in dreadful male creatures? How are those of us who live with boys and men to cope with the horror?

SleepingStandingUp · 26/01/2023 23:58

Charliecatpaws · 26/01/2023 00:00

Should a 7 year old girl go into a gents toilet?

Statistically a 7 yo girl in the women's loos is less likely to be sexually abused than a child in the men's loos, surely?. And a 7 year old girl is more likely to see body parts that a 7 year old boy given women don't pee outside the cubicle.

soundsystem · 26/01/2023 23:59

Boringcookingquestion · 26/01/2023 00:18

I won’t be sending my sons into a public toilet alone when they are 8. If I had a daughter, I don’t think I’d want her going in the ladies alone either. It’s too young to be in a place with strangers and lockable cubicles.

I think I will just tell them they need to be with an adult in the toilet because not all adults are trustworthy… it’s just an extension of stranger danger really.

This is one of the reasons that I support more places introducing family toilets and gender neutral toilets (proper ones with floor to ceiling doors, obviously).

Ok this is properly bonkers. When will you let them go to the loo on their own? When you're in a restaurant or a cafe do you all get up and go together?!

SleepingStandingUp · 27/01/2023 00:03

Bellevu · 26/01/2023 19:50

Why are so many women ok with their sons in female toilets, but not happy to accompany their boys into the men's toilets? You're uncomfortable with the idea of going into the men's but dismiss others worry.

If your son needs to be accompanied, go with them to the male loo and leave girls and women to have an intimate space away from the male gaze.

In what way exactly do you think my 7 yo is watching you as you walk into a cubicle and wash your hands? Do you think he's getting titillations from the idea of women peeing?

Quia · 27/01/2023 00:03

it's not that it's not "safe" to have a 7 year old boy in the ladies. It is that it isn't always appropriate and there may be girls who don't want/like that. They should also be considered.

Why? One of live's most valuable lessons lies in learning to put up with what we don't want or like. As has been pointed out on this thread, some children utterly hate the sound of hand dryers, but no one insists they be taken out of all public toilets. There may be girls who don't want or like crying babies in the Ladies, or boys of 2, 3, 4 or 5. Should we ban all of those as well?

I am making the point, which is consistently and deliberately missed so often in these discussions, that it is ALWAYS women's toilets that are this safe haven of cleanliness and calm tolerance. Even if they were (they are not all like that) the reason they are so is because they are women's facilities. And that having achieved toilet nirvana women shouldn't be simply expected to always shove over.

Wher on earth are these nirvanas? In my experience few public loos escape the smell of wee and worse, and all too many women leave drips on the seats and paper on the floors.

SleepingStandingUp · 27/01/2023 00:07

soundsystem · 26/01/2023 23:59

Ok this is properly bonkers. When will you let them go to the loo on their own? When you're in a restaurant or a cafe do you all get up and go together?!

Show quote history

If I can't see the loo, yes. The girl raped I n Morrisons in 2006 will stick with me, and there was another young girl recently raped by a transgender person in a supermarket. So yeah, even if he goes to a single cubicle toilet I'll be watching the door, and if he has to go into the men's, I'm standing outside and making sure anyone knows I am.

Quia · 27/01/2023 00:08

SilentNightDancer · 26/01/2023 10:44

The six-year-old girl is entitled to be in the women's toilets, as are other adult women.

Seven-year-old boys, in my opinion are borderline too old unless in a really shifty area.

And it seems as though 75% of people reading the thread agree with this view, especially as the boy has been asking to use the gents.

Show quote history

Some 7 year olds are old enough to go the gents, some aren't. It's a matter of maturity, how much experience they've had of going in there with male carers, size, level of understanding etc. In OP's case, the 7 year old has only recently had his birthday - did everything change like magic overnight?

Six year old girls are entitled to be there, they aren't entitled to dictate that the world revolves around their wants.

Bellevu · 27/01/2023 00:58

Why can't you go inside the men's toilets with your 8 year old son if you don't want him to go alone?

Megke89459 · 27/01/2023 06:09

I have done that and been asked to leave quite aggressively.

WandaWonder · 27/01/2023 06:27

I want to know where these spotless women's toilets are, no I have not been everywhere in the world but the places I have been I am yet to find one, I go the toilet heaps

Sux2buthen · 27/01/2023 06:29

Bellevu · 27/01/2023 00:58

Why can't you go inside the men's toilets with your 8 year old son if you don't want him to go alone?

Have you...read the thread for the answers to this already posted question?

People will never agree about this
Everyone should just do what they feel is safest for their kids. That's all anyone can do really