AIBU not to explain why a 7yr old can't go in the gents?

[FlyingPi]

I'm sure this has been discussed before. When we're out and my boy needs the toilet, I make him come into the Ladies with me. Problem is, he's starting to complain about it and wants to go in the Gents on his own. I have let him do this in one particular place where there's never anyone about, so I knew he wouldn't encounter anyone at the urinals. I'm always honest with him but I don't quite know how to explain why I'm not letting him do this anywhere else, like at the swimming pool/gym toilets.
He knows about the Pants rules and personal space and consent but I don't exactly want to spell out what I'm worried about. What do you tell your kids?

I think it all boils down to this - for those of you saying a 7 year old boy shouldn't be in the ladies - would you be happy to send your 7 year old daughter in to the men's toilets unaccompanied. If this would make you uncomfortable or fearful then you should be able to understand why we don't want to send our sons in. Boys are also at risk from paedophiles.

So does the boys safety.

Sally I would not not because I think my DD would be pounced on by men, but because it is not appropriate.

@JanusTheFirst They are in a cubicle, they can't see anything, there is no space to be invaded!

I wouldn't feel comfortable for my thirteen-year-old girl to go into the men's toilets.

Should a thirteen-year-old boy not use the men's on this basis?

My DS has just turned 7 as well and he doesn't want to go to the men's alone. He always asks to come in with me. I try to find neutral ones we can use where possible but sometimes I just bring him into the ladies. I'll keep encouraging him and tell him 8 is the cut off but it makes me nervous!

He's tall and grown up in some ways but can be a worrier and is still very young in other ways. It's a bit of a transitional age.

It would be interesting to know if there are any stats on how many boys are assaulted in gents toilets (and it is probably something that is under reported) but I would imagine it is an absolutely tiny number compared to the population of the country and the number of toilets.
I don't recall when I started going into toilets unaccompanied but as a 40+ year old man I have never experienced anything "dodgy" in a public toilet and I have been in quite a few over the years. I am just one person so obviously not a representative sample but 99.9% of men go into the toilet because they need the toilet and studiously avoid any interaction with anyone else, adult or child. Your son is far more likely to be abused by someone he already knows, unfortunately.

I think the chance of anything serious happening is fairly small, but if it does, it is far more likely to happen in a cubicle (because child doesn't lock it properly or someone is in there already, maybe hiding [as I said, this is extremely unlikely in any event]). Urinals are generally out in the open, so your only real risk is dodgy people peeking over the dividers, which isn't great if it happens but unlikely to lead to terrible long-term consequences.

@yetanothercleverusername There was a dodgy public toilet in a park near me that was closed by the council. It was used for prostitution and drug dealing. There were concerns about possible lower level sexual assaults happening there. There are very dodgy toilets, councils tend to close them. But they are always in isolated places and obviously dodgy. And both the male and female toilets are dodgy. But no sensible parent would send their child into these toilets.

@OutForBreakfast Well yes, run down public toilets in a park would ring alarm bells but as you say, no sensible parent would send their child into those, surely? Not on their own, anyway.

Well maybe the solution is to rethink the male/female only toilets and have more family toilets available. Perhaps there could be individual toilets that are separate from the male/female toilet blocks where children can go safely. A bit like the separate toilets that exist for disabled people but for children to use with their parents (or alone with parents outside).

You say to him "In you go. If anyone asks if are you on your own, say " No, my Mum is right outside".

My husband had already taken the sons in the gents so they knew
they could either use a urinal or a normal lav in a stalland close the door for privacy.

When he's out and about with you, is exactly the time he should start using the gents on his own. Knowing that you're right outside is his protection and security. This is where he learns a little independence and confidence among adult strangers. Unconsciously, he notices what is normal safe behaviour and etiquette in the gents. All perfectly safe because you're right outside, and if he didnt reappear in 2 minutes you'd open the door a bit and shout "Hurry up, Bob"

Then in a few years time when he's out and about unsupervised, A) he's not afraid to use a public toilet and B) he will instantly recognise any behaviour he encounters which is NOT the everyday normal in the gents that he's got used to. That instinctive recognition is his first-line defence.

      Keeping kids in cotton wool doesn't make them safe, it just makes them helpless. Their best protection is to be  competent, experienced and savvy.

Great post!

I understand your caution OP. I started letting son go in the gents from about 8 depending on busyness. I would stand outside the entrance and tell him to call for me if he needed me - he never did. He's 12 now but small
for his age. I still tell him to go in a cubicle and lock the door rather than use the urinal in public loos.

Calls for a family toilet just make me despair. There is not lots of magical extra space in buildings so this would only happen by taking away some existing provision.
Disabled toilets are not the same. Many people could not go out for more than a few hours without disabled toilets or would have to wear nappies. Many people can physically not use ordinary toilets. It is not a preference.

Obviously he's perfectly able to use a toilet himself, but the idea of him seeing grown men using urinals,

Duh? Hasn't he seen his dad , uncle, grandpa peeing in a urinal? Then he should. That shows him what is normal acceptable behaviour in the gents toilet.

If he hasn't seen a grown mans pointing a limp penis at a urinal than he won't have the faintest clue that a grown man at the urinals with an erect penis in his hand is NOT innocently peeing and is a potential threat.

No. I think men have a right to privacy (from women) and dignity when they have private parts dangling. Three cheers for sex based toilets. If a very young girl has to go in with her Dad or male guardian fair enough, just as its okay if a very young boy has to go in to the ladies with his Mum. But other than that its not on. I was 'blessed' with a very confident son who was bloody furious to go in the womens from the age he noticed that men had a different toilet - so I soon gave up. But surely school age 6 or 7 has to be the cut off? These kids are using the correct sex toilets at school.

I don’t think anyone is saying that these things don’t happen but as parents and carers we do what we can to minimise the risk. Standing outside the mens is what most mothers would do. When will you let him go? 9, 10, 11?

The articles quoted are horrific, but rare. When you consider how many trips to the public toilets are made the fear is slightly irrational. When you consider how many car accidents there are daily, statistically there’s more chance of them being involved in a collision, yet you probably don’t think twice about putting your child in the car. I’m not denying the risk if your child goes in the mens toilets but it’s very small.

I'm a single mum of a growing boy. He can come into the ladies with me

@WestBridgewater you can remove the risk altogether by letting young boys go in the ladies. Why even take a risk when there's such a simple solution? A car accident isn't something you can prevent, other then the obvious things like seatbelts and driving safely. But you can protect young children from this particular risk with just a bit of tolerance from supposed adult women. I seriously do not understand the problem with this.

I've been a cleaner in many many facilities.
Mens toikets can be yuck. In womens I've been faced with piss stained seats, period stains, un flushed poos, vomit and a personal favourite; used sanitary towels stuck on doors.
Women can be disgusting too, much as Mumsnet likes to deny it

When they themselves start asking to go into the gents then that's the right time to start.

Ds was about that age. I'd stand at the entrance and he knew that if he was longer than expected I'd ask someone to check on him, or call in to him. I told him if he heard me call he had to call back.

Men's toilets don't suddenly become risk-free at 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12.

At what age would you let your son use the gents unaccompanied?

Like I said previously, I don't recall ever encountering a boy over about the age of 4 in the women's toilets when I was growing up. I'm pretty sure that taking 6, 7 and 8-year-olds into the ladies' loos is a relatively recent phenomenon - but other people may have different experiences.

Yes it's ridiculous isn't it! I don't consider it mollycoddling I consider it being a responsible rather than lazy parent.

There's nothing responsible about holding a child back from being independent.