AIBU not to explain why a 7yr old can't go in the gents?

[FlyingPi]

I'm sure this has been discussed before. When we're out and my boy needs the toilet, I make him come into the Ladies with me. Problem is, he's starting to complain about it and wants to go in the Gents on his own. I have let him do this in one particular place where there's never anyone about, so I knew he wouldn't encounter anyone at the urinals. I'm always honest with him but I don't quite know how to explain why I'm not letting him do this anywhere else, like at the swimming pool/gym toilets.
He knows about the Pants rules and personal space and consent but I don't exactly want to spell out what I'm worried about. What do you tell your kids?

I'm participating in an online discussion. Sorry you don't like that.

Clearly the thought of boys learning to use the men's toilets independently does bring out the absolute worst rage and defensiveness in some mothers.

I think if he wants to be independent in this regard then let him.

I didn't say I didn't like it - where are your reading skills now?

You referred to "the youngest ones of all". If you didn't intend that to have its natural meaning, you should have said so.

It shows ONE batshit crazy parent. No more.

Presumably they are behind a cubicle door so wouldn’t even know he was there.

You told him what now? Jesus wept.

The thought of sending my 7 year old son into the gents toilets alone makes my stomach turn. Unfortunately we live in a fucked up world where you cannot guarantee their safety

It bloody enrages me that due to men, people don't feel safe and everyone ends up in the women's loos, where there is already a mile-long queue.

• It's not safe for kids *It's not safe for trans people

Yet apparently the problem is uppity women complaining everyone is in their space, not the criminal and dodgy men who make it an issue for everyone.

"No one has a problem with a 7 year old boy going in to the toilet with his mum. Which is why the cut off is usually around age 8. But, additional needs aside, the mother does need to start planning that transition to them using the men's / boys toilet.

Most women manage that adequately. Some women thinks is acceptable to never bother, and continue to take their much older male child into the women's toilet, way past age 8, to keep him safe from other males."*
*
I agree with this. I'm also intrigued as to how you'd expect an 8 year old boy to fend off a dangerous male in this sort of environment. I think it's down to the mother to make the judgement. They know their children best. They shouldn't be accosted by idiots like the poster who admitted she verbally attacks young boys because nobody knows the reasoning behind why they are there and it still boils down to the fact that (whilst with their mother) they are not a threat.

I saw a thread like this regarding an older disabled male. His female carer had no option but to take him into the ladies and was given abuse.

I don't believe there should be gender neutral toilets. I do believe that people should exercise their brains and assess what is a threat and what isn't. Disabilities, children, people with chaperones for whatever reason are not a threat in my eyes.

Because it's a scary thought. Your child being in a situation where they are accosted in a small space and you can't see them or immediately help them. And if people were a bit more tolerant beyond thinking about their own preferences it wouldn't be an issue.

I'd be more interested as to why the thought of a young child using the ladies incites so much rage in some women?

I lived abroad when my son was small and I would not have let a 7 year old use the men's toilet on his own. When he asked why I told him that some men like to look at other people's willies and he was horrified.

I think that's a pity because, from what men tell me, etiquette is that you stare straight ahead and no-one looks at people's willies. How did you eventually persuade your son it was OK to use the gents?

At the local leisure centre a girl was sexually assaulted by a man going into the women's toilets.

It's not like either space is particularly safe from the minority, but a large enough minority to make it more common than it ought to be, of men who would commit these acts.

I made a polite request, I didn't police anything. If you misrepresent what people say to suit your argument, you need to expect to be called out on it.

It is a scary thought. Been there done that. But it needs to be done. Rather than use any excuse as to why it can't possibly done.

I don't think women do have a problem with the under 8s generally. 8 generally being the cut off. Most women know that.

A child approaching adolescence is different. And it provokes rage for the same reason men using those spaces do. A sense of entitlement of being in spaces that they should no longer be in.

The etiquette of a normal man you mean? There was no difficulty as he got older and bigger in using the gents. I can assure you he doesn't use women's toilets now!

Perverts aside, from what I hear from my OH, men's loos are often not the cleanest. I always check the ladies cubicle before I send mine in, the thought of them entering God knows what filth is something I prefer to delay for as long as I can.

My swimming pool has unisex changing villages, with mostly large cubicles. I wouldn't take them anywhere that didn't, if they wouldn't be allowed in with me, for a good few years yet.

I made a polite request, I didn't police anything. If you misrepresent what people say to suit your argument, you need to expect to be called out on it

Request politely not granted.

What if a six year old girl doesn't want older women in her toilets? Does she get to dictate that everyone vacates?

don't be soft, that kind of idiocy just derails the conversation.

I saw a thread like this regarding an older disabled male. His female carer had no option but to take him into the ladies and was given abuse.

but she could have used the men's? tbh it wouldn't bother me but since it clearly does bother some women (lots of women? most women? who knows) why not use the men's? can't men be inconvenienced for once? (tbh there should have been an accessible toilet, that is the real scandal here)

This is the point several people are making. The queue for the women's is often really long, so can't we find a better solution? 3rd spaces would solve quite a few modern toilet issues. Or gender neutral for everyone (proper enclosed toilets with sink and bin) and many more accessible toilets.

Well, you can find abnormal people anywhere, of course, but we have posts from men in this thread attesting to the fact that they've never had to deal with anything troubling in public toilets at any time throughout their lives.

I'm just curious about how your son got over his horror at the prospect of men looking at willies in the gents.

If we're concerned that it's not safe for women to have one 7yo boy man in the ladies, why would you think it was safe for a woman caring for a disabled man to go into the gents?

I understand perfectly thank you. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they don't understand you. I read what you wrote, I think you're wrong. Deal with it. Could you be any more arrogant?

OK, and I'll politely carry on pointing out dishonest or unsustainable arguments.

Or gender neutral for everyone (proper enclosed toilets with sink and bin) and many more accessible toilets.

With pissed on seats, potential of cameras being put in there, and footage uploaded, and more risk of women being pushed / trapped in there and assaulted. Not to mention the risk if someone does faint or collapse behind a full length door and cannot be seen.

No thanks.

I'll just ignore you from now on. :-)