Are you a Borrower and if you are why?

[coodawoodashooda]

With the caravan borrower thread in mind, and my neighbour, why are some people so good at borrowing and asking for favours? I would always rather go without or save up until I could get whatever myself. My neighbour has terrible form for running out of main ingredients for the meals she's cooking or being short on childcare. I personally find being in someone else's personal space quite unrelaxing. If you Borrow how do you manage this without feeling embarrassed or awkward? It absolutely baffles me.

[sillysmiles]

To be honest I would rather live in @ladymacbeth's world than @coodawoodashooda
The same goes with asking people for help - if someone asks for help and I can help, why wouldn't I?

[mummabubs]

@pompomdaisy

We have a street WhatsApp group and we all borrow and lend all the time. However we would never present on someone's doorstep. It's more 'has anyone got a xxx I could borrow to do this job?' Then someone will reply. They usually always do and it's different people all the time.

I'd say similar on our road. It's a cul de sac where a lot of people (including us!) bought doer uppers during the pandemic and are now trying to afford to do work ourselves 😅 So there's a few posts a month asking if anyone has a certain tool to borrow for a specific job, but as pompomdaisy says it's broad questions for anyone to offer if they choose. I can't imagine literally going to someone's door and asking on the spot, especially for anything like food. My family wouldn't have done it either.

[WimpoleHat]

@Greatly You’re probably right - I have! 🤣

[whataboutsecondbreakfast]

You see, I find the “of course I can ask” mentality really selfish and entitled.

Why on earth is it selfish and entitled to ask for help when you need it? What a negative, angry way of looking at the world.

It's much better that someone asks for help and gets turned down, than is too scared to ask and suffers or struggles on in silence.

This threads makes me very glad I don't live in a community where people can't ask for help unless they're seen as selfish or cheeky!

[Palmface]

I've married a serial borrower. I hate it! He is always trying to score freebies and advice from friends and families, and it stresses me out as I can't stand asking for help (a flaw in itself i think, based out of insecurity). I have to routinely say it's not appropriate, and sometimes he even asks me to do the asking - no way! I think he'd love it if everyone did this as he'd be happy to lend stuff out, but that's not how the world works and he now has a reputation for asking things of others. So awkward.

[lovelilies]

I have a van so moved some wardrobes for a friend the other day
I asked a neighbour if I could borrow a saw and he came and cut my fenceposts for me
I made NDN some soup the other day

Glad I don't live in MC competitive 'no borrowing/interaction' MN world 😅😅

[WimpoleHat]

Why on earth is it selfish and entitled to ask for help when you need it? What a negative, angry way of looking at the world.

“Need it”. Means different things to different people. If I’ve forgotten to buy eggs which I need for lunch, then I’ll go down to the shop and buy some. Might take me 30 minutes, but then I bear the consequences of my own error. If I go and knock on my neighbour’s door, then she’s the one who’s then without eggs which she may need at some point soon and then she’ll have to have the inconvenience of going to the shop/remembering to get some more.

In a dire emergency? Totally different. But, let’s face it, most of these requests (eg the caravan) are just an attempt to get a freebie while passing on any hidden costs and hassle to someone else. And it’s thoughtless at best and cynical at worst.

[Flipthefrugal]

@AcetoneForMyPhone

Friendly Exchange and the implicit future social obligations of it are also what creates community.

This is part of our evolutionary heritage and contributed greatly to our success.

"Human Cooperation: The Hunter-Gatherer Puzzle"
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982218310509

I accept gracefully my neighbour's offer of surplus strawberries after he visits a farm and he knocks on our door to borrow tools, and offers us to borrow theirs. They have picked our kids up from school in emergencies. We have a very good relationship.

This sums it up perfectly.
It goes pear shaped when some people ( CF) don't keep the balance.
They are entitled and often bully people,to get their own way.
That's when they become CF, they take advantage.
Those saying it's sad, blah, blah, have No idea that this is a set of manipulative behaviours and can be really distressing for example they take advantage of someone financially.
I live in a lovely village and there is always spare veg, clothes hand me downs , missing cat searches etc
I think the term borrow is misused in this thread, borrowing, lending and being a community is very different to someone who takes advantage of others.

[Blossomtoes]

@ladymacbeth

I wouldn't say I'm a borrower but I also live in a very unmumsnetty world where people do each other favours, lend things, pay for things, don't go no contact and generally just get on. So I'd not think twice about lending a a caravan to family!

Same. I once lent my car to a mate for a very long journey because theirs was on its last legs. We share a set of ladders with our next door neighbours, we both paid half. The world I see reflected in MN makes me sad.

[takealettermsjones]

I will borrow things that I only need once so it isn't worth buying - so for example, in the last couple of years I've borrowed a circular saw, a sewing machine and a wallpaper steamer. But I have a rule whereby if I've borrowed something three times then I need my own, and I go and buy one. I'm teetering towards that point with the wallpaper steamer. 😆

[EezyOozy]

I lend and borrow all the time. People normally offer to lend things or help out. We live in a friendly village.

If you’re a CF and take the piss then people won’t help you going forwards!

It’s much more environmentally friendly and financially sensible to borrow something you’re only going to use once ?

When our boiler broke down suddenly in Dec a neighbour leant us 4 large oil filled radiators for three days until the boiler was fixed. At which point we returned them with a bottle of wine.

A friend of mine needed to borrow our double air bed and pump recently - no probs whatsoever. Got in back 2 days later.

why would you want to live in an “every man for himself” world where people don’t help each other out?

[EezyOozy]

And why do people seem to take a strange pride in not borrowing or lending things ?!

[Allthegoodnamesarechosen]

When we had a big garden in France, DH had a lot of labour saving equipment ( strimmer , shredder , hedge cutter etc). The neighbour opposite was retired (not as much money as when working). DH used to lend him the equipment whenever he asked for it.

when we came back from the long winter away, we would find that the house had been aired ( he had a key) the post would be taken in from the box and stacked on the table) the water meter read, the rubbish bags for the year collected from the mayor for us.

There are lots of ways of reciprocity.

[saraclara]

I grew up in a street where borrowing and lending and helping each other out was absolutely normal and there was a real sense of community. But where I live now, I wouldn't be able to bring myself to ask if I could borrow something. My neighbours are perfectly pleasant, but it just doesn't happen. I have a garage full of stuff that is be only too happy to lend out.

But recently in my area, someone has started a 'library of things' where people can borrow all sorts of items from tools to airbeds, which I think is a great idea. It takes away the discomfort of asking a favour from an individual. I'm planning to donate some of my garage stuff, and I've already borrowed something. The downside of course is that it's only open for a couple if hours a week. It's usually something unforeseen that makes me need something that I don't own.

[Pyewhacket]

No, because I won't lend anybody anything anymore.

The last straw was our lawnmower. A friend asked to borrow it and then asked if I could take it around as it wouldn't fit in her car. When I asked for it back she said she hadn't finished with it but by then our cats were hiding in the lawn. Eventually, my husband went around there and banged on their door. When he got it back he had to spend a weekend fixing it. A week later she called me asking if she could borrow our lawnmower.

[whataboutsecondbreakfast]

@WimpoleHat people don't need to be some dire life or death situation to need help though

I'm really glad I don't live in communities where nobody helps anyone else. I've taken people to the vets to collect their dogs after surgery, given and borrowed various bits of kit and I've even borrowed someone's shower a few times when ours was out of action as we have no public pool or gym nearby to use.

Luckily everyone was more than happy to help me out, just as I'm happy to help them. If it's inconvenient or it's something I don't want to lend, I just apologise and say no. It's not some kind of major drama.

[BigglyBee]

My nephew has the farm next-but-one to ours and we often lend/borrow equipment. He borrowed our field, we borrowed his JCB. Similarly, he did our lambing and we looked after his livestock while he was on holiday or ill. For the lambing alone, he is one of my favourite people! When it's time to do the bigger planting and harvesting jobs, we do them together as well, so each person has help and it all gets done quicker, rather than struggling on alone. Where I live, there is a tradition of co-operation which (when it works) makes everyone's lives easier. There's always one, though, who thinks they can take without contributing, so you do have to be a bit careful.

There was community equipment scheme in our area where in theory, everyone could borrow machinery (big stuff like dipping tanks, threshers, binders or whatever) and it ended in disaster because a few people took the piss and nobody every thought they should bother fixing anything that broke or wore out.

[ShippingForecastMeditator]

I would always rather go without. Would you OP? Why? You say you'd rather do this or wait until you've saved up enough to buy, but how on earth could you own (or want to own) every single thing you might ever need? In real life (away from MN) people are usually more than happy to lend to others.

[Flipthefrugal]

@Blossomtoes

Same. I once lent my car to a mate for a very long journey because theirs was on its last legs. We share a set of ladders with our next door neighbours, we both paid half. The world I see reflected in MN makes me sad.

I don't think Op means reciprocal borrowing where no one takes the pee.
It's CFuckery when someone gets a new caravan and rather than say "how exciting" their first thought is " when can I use it" then following up with a message from their DP.(TAAT sorry MN)

[BumpySkull]

I’m a borrower. We’re renovating currently and so we borrow tools from my parents or our neighbour who’s a builder. It doesn’t make sense to buy a tool you’ll only use once. Tools have always been offered and we lend back things we have that other people find useful (camping gear, prams, books etc). As long as you take care of things and return them promptly then there’s no issue.

[DeathBy1000PipeCleaners]

Clearly there's everyday borrowing, which is fine, and being an outright taker, which is not, and which I think the OP is really asking about.

I like being one of life's kind and helpful people. But there's a big difference between 'have you got a tent we could borrow for a weekend' (yes) and 'can I live in your house rent-free for three months while I work in the area to save money' (no). If you're generous to people, you need the backbone to say no to cheeky fucks who will take advantage of that.

[freckles20]

I have two neighbours who I freely borrow from and visa versa. It is a godsend when I'm part way through cooking a meal and realise I haven't got something essential.

We lend and borrow tools, lawnmowers, ingredients, cat food etc..

I lent my tent to one of them in the summer, and when I got a flat tyre she offered me her car to get to work and back (without being asked she just saw me struggling and offered).

We help each other out in lots of ways- of them is absolutely terrified of spiders so I sometimes get an SOS call, the other has a fragile back so sometimes asks for help with lifting and carrying. Both are great cooks and shove soup and cakes at me as a thank you.

They are now great friends and it is lovely to know that there is some support available close by if needed.

Over the years we've provided emergency childcare for each other. When my dad had a heart attack one of them looked after my son several times in 10 days, and when she was unwell her boys stayed with me so she could recover.

I think we all know that it is perfectly acceptable to say no to something if inconvenient. For example, you'd have to prise my last teabag out of my cold dead hand. She was also aware that if she'd trashed my tent I'd have expected it to be replaced, and of course I covered the costs of being put on her car insurance as a fully comp driver.

I feel good when I help them out so it is a win-win situation.

[Solmum1964]

@iwishiwereafirefly

Yes @ladymacbeth, think I'm the same. I'm not really a borrower but I tend to think of my stuff as not 'mine'. If I'm lucky enough to have it and I'm not using it, then others (who will take care of it) are welcome to borrow.

I have asked a neighbour and a local friend if they have a certain ingredient that I thought I had before now. I always replace it when I go shopping. They also ask me when they run out of something. DH also has a lot of tools and we have lent some of these or helped with a job if it's easier. Foodie gifts generally received in return 😁

[ThreeFeetTall]

I haven't read the whole thread but it's so depressing that you would go without something you needing because you were scared of what someone you barely knew thought of you.
What happened to community?

[Cornelious2011]

I'm not really a borrower, just because we're fortunate that we have what we need (generally). If it was something I was going to use more than once I'd buy it. We do lend out things to family and close friends- garden tools, carpet cleaners, car tools , my car (once to my dad) etc. why wouldn't you want to help out a loved one if you could to save them buying, for example an electric hedge clipper that they only need once every 5 years? I don't get that mentality. I live in Ireland though and most people are very giving and neighbourly (in the broadest sense).

I don't know if I'd lend out a brand new caravan though. I'd want to break it in first, get the newness out and it already have had a few dings/ imperfections so I wouldn't be so precious someone else using it.

I think the frequently seen Mumsnet view of 'I am fully independent, I don't need anything from anyone' is really poor and no doubt adds to the individualised nature of society, which I think contributes to MH difficulties. It's ok to ask for help. I genuinely enjoy helping others 🤷‍♀️