Are you a Borrower and if you are why?

[coodawoodashooda]

With the caravan borrower thread in mind, and my neighbour, why are some people so good at borrowing and asking for favours? I would always rather go without or save up until I could get whatever myself. My neighbour has terrible form for running out of main ingredients for the meals she's cooking or being short on childcare. I personally find being in someone else's personal space quite unrelaxing. If you Borrow how do you manage this without feeling embarrassed or awkward? It absolutely baffles me.

What happened to community?

It seems to be vanishing. If MN is anything to go by. People won’t answer their door, won’t take parcels in for their neighbours, won’t let other people use a parking space they don’t need. It just goes on. It’s really sad.

I don't often borrow things because I learned very early on that some people hold it over you even if it's just by tutting and sighing about how much they do for you.

I'm thick skinned but I hate that so I am reasonably independent and well-organised. I'm one of those people who's always got a tissue up their sleeve.

I'd prefer to give things to people (within reason, I'm not made of money) than lend because I'm particular about my favourite stuff and some people ruin things or just keep them. Plus, if it's my favourite stuff that generally means I use it or just enjoy looking at it so I need it.

So I won't lend precious things and I won't lend money that I can't afford to lose but do lend things if I'm not that bothered if I never see again.

That's not to say I have limitless patience. I used to work with someone who was always borrowing things from everyone in the department because she was lazy and disorganised. Because she was so feckless she would often trash or lose them and never replace them.. She once borrowed a piece of work kit from a colleague that everyone who does our job had except for her. It was about £50. She could easily afford one but she always forgot or was waiting for the latest model to come out. She lost it and then whined when he asked her for the money. He never saw the money and bought another one.

This extended to the most trivial things. Because I sat next to her she'd regularly ask me for tampons. Of course, we all have emergencies but this would happen every month. It wasn't because she couldn't afford them it was because she was forgetful and too fucking lazy to buy them when she did remember because it was much easier to ask the girl sitting next to her.

One day I said no and said there was a tampon dispenser in the loo and a chemist with a wider selection next door. She said I was horrible meaning: "You won't do what I want you to do."

WRT the Asker/Guesser, I find Guessers so incredibly frustrating. It feels so manipulative, just hinting at what they want, all pass/agg. I had a friend and some relatives like that.

They were always moaning how “unsupportive” someone was, but never asked for any help. They wanted people to be mind-readers. Who has headspace for that? We’re all dealing with our own internal crap, never mind trying to decipher the runes to see what someone else wants but won’t ask for.

I’m happy to offer my stuff to share, within reason, and ask as well. I am perfectly happy to accept a “no” and to say it. Because that’s why we have words, to communicate.

Then again, I wasn’t brought up in the U.K., so that might be part of it.

With books, if I want it back I specify that when I loan it. Otherwise I take a laissez faire approach. My mum (not a re-reader) used to borrow books from me and pass them on to other people, so I learned to be very specific.

I know - it seems sad. I'm not sure MN is fully representative of the real world though. My neighbour and I had kids of the same age - we shared child care a LOT when they were at primary school. We did a bit more than they did, but they are both in the police and on shifts so it made sense. I didn't mind. I also occasionally "borrow" (and never return) an egg from her as she has chickens. We help each other in our cul-de-sac and no-one really take the piss. I'm saddened by the lack of goodwill that seems prevalent on here.

I do a sport that has various equipment needs depending on what you're doing. It's pretty unusual for one person, or even group, to own everything they might conceivably need so borrowing and lending is very common.

IRL I don't tend to borrow, unless it's very short term, like someone buying you a ticket and you paying them back. I have no problem lending things or money to friends

Yes, it is. It must be exhausting to be constantly on high alert for CFs, or any time you have a human interaction to come and start a thread in AIBU about it.

With close family there are things one person will have and doesn't mind lending out because ots daft all of us having say a wallpaper stripper which is not used a lot. But it's reciprocal, I'll borrow X but I have Y which others can borrow. Even so I'm always mega careful that I don't damage whatever it is and would replace instantly if I did.

I have only borrowed one thing from a neighbour and that was a tin opener as mine broke while I was prepping dinner. Even then I trotted round with my can of chickpeas and asked if they could finish opening it for me! They laughed, said they had a spare and could keep it until I got another.

Someone borrowed a book I loved. I still think about that book. In fact the other day I thought I’ll just buy a replacement, this was years ago! It’s a book I’ve even seen in theatre. It’s not expensive and there are millions of copies around the world but sometimes I guess you can borrow something not give it back, but the borrower doesn’t know how much that one thing means to them.

A relative of mine borrowed an outfit from me and ruined it, like totally ruined it. It cost me money etc they didn’t compensate me for it.

I think after that I don’t want to lend stuff anymore.

Nope, I'd rather go without.

For specific items with close friends or family, sure. I'm borrowing my best friend's TENS machine for birth this month. I quite often borrow my dad's car when he doesn't need it. I tend to sub another close friend financially near the end of the month - she always returns in full on the agreed day.

I'm not a borrower but it amused me when a neighbour waited for me to come back from the local shop to ask if I had a carrot to spare as she didn't have one to make bolgonese for her children.

I have a WhatsApp group going with my neighbours too, we're always asking if someone has some foil or an onion! I think it's great! Why pop to Tesco for a tin of tomatoes if next door has one spare that you can replenish?

Similar to others, we have a close Whatsapp and do borrow and lend things from time to time.

Mostly it’s the parents.
a a an example the other day, realised I had no garlic for a recipe I’d already started.

If I’d gone to the shop, I have had to coat and shoe 5 & 6 yo’s and dragging them to the co op literally 5 mins down the road would
have taken at least 1/2 an hour. Whereas I could just pop to my neighbours door whilst they were watching tv.

We all do it. Although if I’d not already started the recipe, I would have just changed what I was doing. I just assumed we have garlic!
we always have it! 😂

We have regular text exchanges with next door when one of us discovers we’re out of an ingredient in the middle of cooking. The village shop’s only a ten minute walk away but we both have children and husbands who work late/away a lot, so we’re not going to drag the kids out of bed to go and get a tin of tomatoes when next door probably has some. It’s completely reciprocal, and the flow of baked goods, cat-feeding, loan of garden tools and babysitting goes both ways too. Don’t know how either of us would cope if the other moved!

A bit of a tangent but this reminds me of an article I read today

www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/give-me-a-hand-i-m-a-single-mother-20230123-p5ceon.html

It's a single mother lamenting the lack of a 'village' to help her raise her child.

She mentions a lot of things that this village could be doing for her, but she doesn't mention doing anything for others.

The whole system is based on reciprocity. I don't mind lending you my snow gear because you let me borrow your lawn mower. I'm happy to watch your child because you brought me soup when I was stuck home with Covid.

People need to realise it's give and take. That's how trust and good will is built.

Some people just take, or just expect without thinking about the bigger picture.

I am, but only of small things. Eg I needed a clove of garlic and I was out and knew my neighbour (who I know well and get on with) would have one. I don't think that is particularly unusual. We also borrowed her table for dinner on NYE as couldn't get all our guests round it. Dropped it back the next day. I return these favours, eg by being in to take delivery of parcels for her.

Surely this kind of thing is normal??

I practically never borrow anything. I've been loaned a booked before now, but I did return it. Unlike the neighbour years ago who borrowed a stepladder, then a spade, then I saw her a couple of months later packing her lorry to move-without returning them. She was quite put out that I insisted she find them rather than return them "soon".

That said, I think loaning things to nice people who I trust is no problem, and I'd let any neighbour have coffee etc. It doesn't matter to me to lend or give things you don't need to get back, as long as it's not a weekly habit.

In my experience it’s generally women who seem to want to borrow, ask for freebies etc often on our local group. Generally either pretty women in their late teens, 20s or early 30s. Or we have a couple of 50+ women who make out they are useless and need to borrow all sorts for various tasks and often end up getting the job done for them by a local man. Both groups seem to know they can get the sympathy of men in particular.

I’ve seen one man post saying he just moved into a home here, needed to borrow a carpet cleaner for an hour or so to clean one living room carpet that smelled of dog, just wanted the cleaner said he would pay for solution etc himself. Was ignored and only a couple comments telling him to get a rug doctor from Tesco.

Conversely a few months later, 20s mother (deliberately mentions kids rooms in her post) asks to borrow a cleaner to do the whole house, as rental she has moved into isn’t in best condition and receives several offers from men and women in minutes to borrow a carpet cleaner and even had a man offering to come round and do it for her.

Pretty privilege?

If it's inconvenient or it's something I don't want to lend, I just apologise and say no. It's not some kind of major drama.

But it is to some people, @whataboutsecondbreakfast . Just look at some of the recent threads on here: the caravan, the lady who didn’t want her DD’s boyfriend to move into her house while they were away, the endless tales of people trying to blag free childcare. And in all of those situations - absolutely all of them - “no, you can’t” would be a perfectly reasonable answer. But human nature being what it is, a lot of people are very reluctant just to “apologise and say no”. They fear causing offence, or looking mean, or having people say bad things about them. And I think just knowing that should make people very reluctant to ask for favours/to borrow stuff unless it’s a) someone they know very well and there’s a genuine reciprocity there or b) it’s a genuine emergency (ie not something that can be sorted by a trip to the shops). (To be fair, I can see how a street WhatsApp is different, as you’re not putting one single person on the spot; if you don’t want to give your eggs, you just don’t reply and it doesn’t make any one person feel awkward.)

😐

Are you a man @LikeTearsInRain ?

Surely it's environmentally friendly to swap and borrow. Some people (lots) don't have money to buy anything new.
It's not bad so long as you can refuse or reciprocate. Humans are designed to cooperate and unfortunately we have been brainwashed into being rugged individualists by capitalism.. Companies make more money if we each have to buy 1 of everything instead of borrowing or swapping.

This is hilarious!

Definitely not pretty privilege in the case of my neighbours and I as we are pretty old and ugly!

But human nature being what it is, a lot of people are very reluctant just to “apologise and say no”. They fear causing offence, or looking mean, or having people say bad things about them. And I think just knowing that should make people very reluctant to ask for favours/to borrow stuff unless it’s a) someone they know very well and there’s a genuine reciprocity there or b) it’s a genuine emergency

I don't think that's human nature - I think that's modern society making us all very insular and unwilling to look outside our own set of circumstances. I don't think it's anything positive.

Humans have also evolved to live in communities and in societies where everyone plays their part and helps each other out.

If you're too embarrassed to say no then that's on you - other people shouldn't change their behaviour because you don't have the guts to stand up for yourself.