Our guests are hinting they wont leave .. continued thread …

[Duvetdaysaregood]

Did anyone read my previous thread were dd bf invited his parents to stay over Christmas and it was awful? Seemed to be dominating our household etc. bit of a user . We got some very good advice.

We have now been thrown a bit of a new situation and would appreciate advice please.

Our dd has kindly booked us a weekend away , her and us . We were over the moon until we heard the words and bf can come and look after the pets . ( we normally take with us , but cannot to this venue ) .

In the previous thread I identified that the bf said to us he considered our home one of his bases.
There is a backstory in the thread but don't know how to link !

We really dont want him to be in our home by himself (and also possibly invite parents again. )
In the face of our daughters genuine kindness we are instead of feeling pleased , stressed.
We don't want to lose her by insulting her bf , but anyone who has read the previous thread will know why this is really not on .

What in earth can we say to our dd?
We also would like advice on what do to in future a
s we feel that anytime we go away our home may be seen as an opportunity to be moved into as he may see it as a chance for a free holiday ( again if you read the backstory , you will know why)

( we cannot really say oh so and so is moving in for a week to deter ? As this gives the idea its fine for people to move into our home. Of course if it was our dd or other family members it would go without question they are welcome to use our home , we would be glad to let them use it .)
Simply do not know how to deal
with this and as said we don't want to lose dd over the fact that we do not want her bf using our house when we are away — she knows we are naturally inclusive people and will sus that this is not how we are and be surprised if we say no . . she will ask why.. especially has done something so kind for us .

I agree with this - his background might explain it but it NEVER excuses it.

He is a grown man living in society who is actively choosing to adopt and embed macho views and exert his power and control on to your DD and subjugate her.

I would be very very clear in my own head of my what I see in him and in my responsibility and accountability to my DD to free her up to see it clearly and know she has agency and options and value.

Its how it’s said and that’s important - needs to be a two pronged of building her up and the relationship of trust with her and once this is clear - subtle but direct and specific Qs or observations that she can go away and process slowly if needed. And to be open to listen and watch her body language.

The time away together is a great opportunity to start to build up her self esteem.

Has he stayed with you before? Did you notice anything then - or was he different around his parents or was it their behaviour that made you see his behaviour more sharply?

Oh come on OP. Why would he ‘shed it’? It’s who he is. He is not going to miraculously look at you and your DH no matter how you gently try to guide him and have the scales fall from his eyes and realise that his behaviour is wrong and that he is a greedy misogynistic buffoon. He IS a greedy misogynistic buffoon!

Good luck OP. I remember your other post. Hope this works! x x

The man you're describing has extreme narcissistic traits and from what you've said, probably had a background perfect for producing narcissistic personality disorder. These tend to entrenched and highly resistant to change. He will never shed them. It would be better for you to accept that your daughter is a victim of narcissistic abuse and read up on how to support her.

Op says repeatedly that her DD has seen her welcome and offer countless others the home....

Maybe ops DD thought the same would be extended to what she regards at the the moment....her "love"??

Maybe it's ops DD who has set the Tone " yeah come to my parents they are so welcoming they want people to enjoy themselves and fee comfortable.... they often offer it out for friends to have a break".

They feeling they are in a prime position as ops DDS loves family that they feel comfortable?

So perhaps ops DD has sold them a line coupled with the lack of experience of the bf parent's???

@Toomuchinfor .

In what way?
What are they?

He's too macho and apparently indulges in a sport known for this?

He looked in parents bedroom we don't know if her DD even gave him a tour??

He has said strange king of the jungles remarks to ops DH but perhaps this is trying to impress them .... reassure them? Other families would rate a caring side or financial stability but in his world it's all about fist's?

So he's trying to show how good he is but he doesn't understand that's not the value commodity in ops world

He has stolen something? Bizzare and unforgivable.

He made reference to the biggest plates whatever that means? Maybe it was it was his way of saying thanks?

He left laundry by the machine. Odd...but not necessarily anything dreadful...

Apparently he makes ops DD happy?

What has drawn ops DD to this man?

I agree.

All this suggestion of gentle correction will be utterly dismissed by him.

The combination of this deeply misogynistic man, the OP's fear of upset and being so terrified of having a simple honest conversation with her daughter is such a disaster.

The OP has never answered why she is so fearful of her daughter?

This lack of very basic honesty is what will cause huge damage here and has allowed her daughter to behave so poorly towards her parents, with them afraid to acknowledge it.

It is so unbelievably not normal to impose a boyfriends parents on your parents for a week at Christmas and watch your mother run ragged over it.

This is so NOT normal behaviour from the daughter and speaks to me that she is a lot closer aligned to the boyfriend than the OP will face.

Words are cheap.
I'm all about actions.

The daughters actions were dreadful, she had to be asked to leave and take these awful people with her.

Again, in my nearly 60 years I have NEVER heard of such a scenario.

Now 3 weeks later, after the boyfriend has fully established that the OP's home is now another base, the daughter is back on to facilitate another visit?

The OP is spectacularly naive and no match for her daughter partnered with such a conniving, manipulative loser.

He thinks the OP and her husband are easy marks, that is clear.

By not being crystal clear to her daughter of their distaste for what occurred at Christmas and HIS behaviour, the daughter will undoubtedly think there is some implicit approval of him.

How many women with dreadful partners hear after they finally get away that none of their family or friends like him and ask why they were never told.

You cannot choose your daughters partner but you can clearly say that we simply do not think he is good enough for you and he have huge reservations about him.

I’d go one step further (extreme) and turn boiler/thermostat right down so house is cold… and make sure you have trusted person staying and tell DD & bf that heating is broken, you’ve got engineer coming but he/they won’t be able to stay
& that you have “uncle bob” coming to help the engineer cuz “he knows all about that sort of stuff & will stop you getting ripped off” etc….

I think having someone staying there just in case the boyfriend comes is overkill and starting to seem paranoid. The OP is only going away for a weekend not a month. I think the bolt sounds sensible and surely most people turn their heating right down when they're away from the house anyway. If boyfriend isn't dog sitting he has no reason to be in the house so is highly unlikely to invite people there. The OP has not said anything to make him sound like a house breaker or total psycho. He lives 3 hours away and from the last thread I think doesn't drive so turning up hoping he can let himself in uninvited would be weird and if he did try it and couldn't get in he'd just go away again.

My thoughts exactly.

@AmberMcAmber The OP has sorted this problem several pages back!

I read you are in your 60s and somehow your Dd has convinced you that you are about to drop dead. Hence the holiday

I am sorry but that is bloody weird and if that is the conversations you have been having then I think you need to be very scared.

I am in my 60s and I don’t feel at all like I am on my last legs and about to die so dc are rushing me off on holiday to spend time with me just because I might not make it to the end of the week.

I know you have had a recent loss but the whole thing, the bf, your Dd and her holiday, and the family telling you when they would be leaving is just creepy AF

I do think you and your Dd need to do the Freedom programme.

If this is what he is like with you. Then what is he like behind closed doors?

I would be wondering whether your dd has been persuaded to get you on holiday whist he goes round to booby trap your house.

He has definitely his eyes on your house.

You need cctv cameras in every room.

Don’t be surprised if your dd or the bf haven’t already made their own copy of the back door key.

I am sure the bf already has keys to your house

Would you, aye.

You'd lie to your daughter, & invent ridiculous contortions, because you reckon that's easier than saying "no, your b/f cannot use my house when I'm not there" ?

The OP has not said anything to make him sound like a house breaker or total psycho

The op has seen him steal, he thinks disagreements should be dealt with by fighting. He calls the op’s home his base, he been in her bedroom on his own and calls Op’s Dh his 2nd dad. (All overly familiar and creepy)

Add in him and his family outstaying their welcome and announcing they were staying longer with no thought for anyone and the opportunism looking at situations and thinking how it could benefit him.

OP and her Dh’s house and money in this case are the benefits.

It is about reading between the lines.

Just because someone hasn’t gone out and killed someone doesn’t mean they aren’t a psycho
The signs are there and when you have experienced someone like this you never forget the signs which on the face if it others dismiss as endearing

Maybe you should just tell her the reason?

@AmberMcAmber

Maybe you could go "one step further" and read the thread (not extreme). Or at least just read the OPs posts.

The OP has never answered why she is so fearful of her daughter? This lack of very basic honesty is what will cause huge damage here and has allowed her daughter to behave so poorly towards her parents, with them afraid to acknowledge it.

It is so unbelievably not normal to impose a boyfriends parents on your parents for a week at Christmas and watch your mother run ragged over it.

This is so NOT normal behaviour from the daughter and speaks to me that she is a lot closer aligned to the boyfriend than the OP will face.

I totally agree with you @billy1966. It just doesn't make any sense

Again, in my nearly 60 years I have NEVER heard of such a scenario.

Neither have I. It wouldn't ever have happened in our house because I know how to say no to DD, because she has grown up knowing that I am not a weak lettuce pushover when it comes to unreasonable requests.

How come the OP's DD holds so much control over her parents? And where is the OP's husband in this?

@RampantIvy we all love our children I think and want to think the best of them, however when that desire prevents you from acknowledging who they really are, the good, the bad and the ugly, WE really let them down.

To be afraid of any sort of honesty in your relationship with your child fails them terribly.

No one will most likely ever be as wholly invested in your childs life success as you, their parent.

If you cannot be honest with them in kindness and respect, to warn them of peril and a poor long lasting decision, who will?

No one will.

Parents do it because we want the best possible life for our children and choosing a good partner is a huge part of that.

To allow a situation like this to limp on with the hope of gentle reinforcement of values to somehow wake this woman up is likely more hope than reality.

Parents denying who their children really are and colluding in the fantasy of them being obtuse or led astray by someone, does them a huge disservice.

No this would NEVER happen in our house because we both have boundaries, our children know we wouldn't tolerate it for a second.

The OP got caught up in a appalling situation at Christmas and instead of meeting it head on, she is going to limp on.

Her daughter is back 3 weeks later for round two............while mentioning her mortality.

I'm with @ZeldaWillTellYourFortune I wouldn't stand near him at the edge of a cliff and I'd be giving your daughter the side eye.........

I care enough about my children to be prepared to say honestly and with love, that Christmas was the most appalling invasion, intrusion and imposition and will NEVER happen again.
I would also being saying that OUR home is not for you to gift out to others.

A continuation of denial of some of your daughter's characteristics............

in her selfishness,
her disrespect of your home,
her conveniently ignoring you run ragged, her allowing his family to so completely abuse your hospitality,
to her now lack of reflection nor acknowledgement that they all were asked to leave,
to 3 weeks later pulling a stunt so he could return, ..................is all 100% going to come back and bite the OP massively on the arse.

I suspect your fear, denial and lack of confidence in your relationship with your daughter will lead you to a place of bitter regret, where you will sorely wish you could revisit this period of time and have dealt with her more firmly and decisively, modelling strong boundaries and self respect where you do not tolerate being treated like a skivvy in your own home by a bunch of ill bred opportunists.

You have said it better than I could @billy1966.

It sounds like the lack of boundaries when the DD was growing up means that she can now twist her parents round her little finger because they are so afraid of saying no to her. How has it come to this?

Lordy Lordy
You don't have to have anyone staying at your house that you don't want. Regardless of whether you are there or not

I've read your OP posts and most of early bit in long thread

Gonna try to read it all when I have time as it's very interesting

But

I'm glad you've sorted it

I wouldn't give an inch his parents cannot stay at yours again and neither can he, you're not a free hotel or air b&b - it's your home and no matter how important bf is to your Dd he isn't respectful and has zero boundaries

When my young adult DD or DS stay at mine when I'm going away if I'm not home they ask me if x or y t can stay and clear up after them, and are really grateful. And they don't have anything but housing accomodation at Uni so they actually live with me during term breaks

Mine can be slightly entitled but even they are grateful and would never ever let a friend or partner stay when they re not home at mine!!! They want to keep living with me and not have me change the locks...

I'd be getting a Ring doorbell if not and changing locks! (I've good neighbours who'd tell me anyway)

I let my DS have a party whilst I was away for a few days with his younger sisters and returned to chocolates, the lawn cut, pets taken care of and had a few party photos sent to me and a later 'sorry we ate all your bread' MrsT type messages ! )

Not knowing how old he is its hard to say but many young people steal from a shop, perhaps once or twice. Its somehow a young thing, one off, I don't think that's the end of the world personally.

When they're 13/14 - yes. It's quite common. By the time they're in their 20's they should be well past that sort of "showing off/I dare you to . . ." sort of behaviour.

@Duvetdaysaregood- all due respect to you but you're still going around with the rose tinted glasses on thinking that in the end all will come good and you won't have to rock the boat at all to have reached that point.

I think you need to have a one to one conversation with your daughter. Alone. Without her boyfriend dropping in or dropping by interrupting your conversation. You need to have this conversation somewhere neutral, so perhaps get her to come to the house but go off for a drive and walk, just you and her.

Tell her that you were exhausted during Christmas and New Year and you're only catching your breath now following all of the extra work that her guests caused you.
While the upcoming trip away is nice, it's far too soon after Christmas to be even thinking of going anywhere with or without the dogs.
As she is now an adult and has moved out of the family home to her own place, while she may need a place to stay for a night, it would only be her that could stay in future, not her and guests. It's too much work for you.
No one, not even her, can stay in the house when you're not there.

Things were different when everyone (you and her) were younger but these are now the way things are going to happen going forwards.

Also, for any other event (Easter/Christmas/Birthday/whatever) you will be looking to have someone else host it, be that a hotel or her & her boyfriend as you've done your time being hostess, so no one is having a 'base' in your home except you and your DH from now on.

That's how I would have the discussion. I would make the least number of references to her boyfriend as possible during the conversation. This is a you and her conversation and you're setting out new ground rules. If she doesn't like them, she doesn't get to visit.

As for getting a bolt for the front door, why not get an additional lock that while you're in the home is not required but when you go out/away, you use it then? I mean if you have a Yale key to open your front door, why not get an additional Chubb lock for it too. She wouldn't require the Chubb key.

I would also get an additional lock for the back door too, so then you can make sure that BOTH are locked securely when you leave the house each time (e.g. going shopping) and you don't have to leave by the back door every time.

It seems like you do like to overcomplicate even things that don't require it.

Well done for sorting it OP. You’ve had some good advice here. I do remember your previous thread about his parents coming to stay, without invitation. I know you said that you get the impression that they’re not well off, but I also recall you saying that your daughter’s boyfriend has a fairly good degree and was earning a fairly decent wage for his age (around 40k). Assuming he is a similar age to your DD (mid to late 20s) that IS indeed decent (very good in fact). The fact that his parents visited empty handed, not so much bringing a “bottle for the house” and not contributing anything - i.e living for free and only buying two small coffees says a lot. They are spongers and saw the visit as a free holiday in a nice location.

I know you said that you are going to tell them that your savings are “dwindling” and that for any future visits you would need a financial contribution from them. Don’t do that - just ask for a contribution - using the cost of living rise as an excuse. However, you shouldn’t have to, as they should have contributed willingly anyway. If they have to contribute in future, it might hopefully put them off! Although I’m sure that even they would recognise that, even with a financial contribution, it would be a cheap holiday! If their son is earning around 40k, he could have perhaps paid for a Christmas meal out for them, instead of them coming to you. If not, at the very least he could have provided a turkey crown and some nice chocs or biscuits. Wine/special beer if they drink. The fact take he took “his” chocs to his room and didn’t share them, says it all. If his parents hadn’t come to you, they would have had to eat anyway. If he didn’t want to pay for a meal out, then he could have helped with the cost, or else it would haven been beans on toast or egg and chips, although I doubt it. They could afford the train ticket, so they should have made a contribution to the food/drink. It would have been nice for them to pay for a nice pub lunch with drinks as well. Your daughter’s boyfriend as well. They are scroungers! Lessons learned here - you will know for future visits (if there are any).

I hope you enjoy your break away with the dogs. I’m sure you’ll have a lovely time, and I’m glad you’re sorting out the lock on the front door. These people are not poor or people who have fallen on hard times. They are spongers/users and opportunists. Have your excuses ready for the summer holidays as they appear to be seeing your home as a hotel/future holiday destination. Good luck!

I don't know why some posters are determined to create a scenario where the OP is scared of her daughter or where her daughter is a spoilt entitled brat with no boundaries!

Its very clear the OP is sensibly wary of handling DD's BF's behaviour in such a way as may cause DD to be driven further into the arms of the potentially controlling and unpleasant BF.

If she is correct that the BF genuinely is potentially abusive in some way, then she is absolutely spot on in wanting to handle that carefully.

I agree. The OP is trying not to do what my parents did and drive me into the arms of an unsuitable man by criticising him. They don't want to put their daughter on the defensive. They are absolutely right to say no to him staying in their house though.