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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Our guests are hinting they wont leave .. continued thread …

802 replies

Duvetdaysaregood · 23/01/2023 09:31

Did anyone read my previous thread were dd bf invited his parents to stay over Christmas and it was awful? Seemed to be dominating our household etc. bit of a user . We got some very good advice.

We have now been thrown a bit of a new situation and would appreciate advice please.

Our dd has kindly booked us a weekend away , her and us . We were over the moon until we heard the words and bf can come and look after the pets . ( we normally take with us , but cannot to this venue ) .

In the previous thread I identified that the bf said to us he considered our home one of his bases.
There is a backstory in the thread but don't know how to link !

We really dont want him to be in our home by himself (and also possibly invite parents again. )
In the face of our daughters genuine kindness we are instead of feeling pleased , stressed.
We don't want to lose her by insulting her bf , but anyone who has read the previous thread will know why this is really not on .

What in earth can we say to our dd?
We also would like advice on what do to in future a
s we feel that anytime we go away our home may be seen as an opportunity to be moved into as he may see it as a chance for a free holiday ( again if you read the backstory , you will know why)

( we cannot really say oh so and so is moving in for a week to deter ? As this gives the idea its fine for people to move into our home. Of course if it was our dd or other family members it would go without question they are welcome to use our home , we would be glad to let them use it .)
Simply do not know how to deal
with this and as said we don't want to lose dd over the fact that we do not want her bf using our house when we are away — she knows we are naturally inclusive people and will sus that this is not how we are and be surprised if we say no . . she will ask why.. especially has done something so kind for us .

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Abra1t · 23/01/2023 15:04

wednesdaynamesep · 23/01/2023 11:32

I just skim read the previous thread and it gave me the creeps. There is a culture difference in my family too (DH is British, my family are not), and there is a culture of male chivalry in my country that DH just lacks.

Examples: First thing the men do when they walk into a room in the evening, is check whether anyone wants a drink (women never pour drinks). DH seems to think he's a guest, and sits about getting waited on.

If the women have gone grocery shopping, men come out to help carry in anything heavy. Doesn't even occur to DH. I have to ask / tell him to do it in the UK.

Going on a long journey: men tend to pack the car boots, fetching and carrying heavy items from the house. DH sits on his arse (in the UK I pack the boot because he's useless at it).

A man would never walk through a door ahead of a women; DH thinks nothing of it.

The one that embarrasses me the most: when food is being served and there is a crowd, children get served first, then women, and the men go last. At Christmas, I turned around to see my DH cheerfully piling his plate high while the women and children waited, and the men were standing back chatting, watching and waiting. First in the queue. I have spoken about this to him before, and his logic is the men take too long and their food gets cold.

I see it all and it embarrasses me. I don't notice it as much in the UK because chivalry is a bit dead here, and he's one of many. But crikey, in my country he comes across as seriously rude and lazy. I am slightly irritated with him the whole stay, and that irritation eases when back in the UK.

My point is, your daughter already knows what her bf is, because you raised her and she knows how all your family and friends behave. She shares your values. She's in denial about her bf, or hoping you haven't noticed.

If you gently tell her you felt taken advantage of, don't like the way he talks to her Dad, did not appreciate him going into your bedroom or helping himself without asking first etc, then she'll know you've seen it too. It won't be a surprise. She might be miffed you won't participate in wilful blindness, but too bad. It's her job to manage the relationship between you and him, not yours ... she's the common link. You need to set boundaries though, and be very clear about what you do and do not expect.

In my case, my DH gets his ass handed to him every time ... by me. Imagine fierce whispers: "All the men are fetching and carrying and packing the car ...move your arse and help please !"

I also have massive mental load to anticipate his lack of chivalry and warn him in advance: "When we get to 'x' do NOT sit down until all the women and elderly are seated first. If a woman walks in and there isn't a seat ... stand up and give her yours." I do get push back: "That's just stupid / sexist etc". My response is "My country, my family, my rules...". Your daughter needs to do the same.

Finally, I've told my mum and sister I've noticed it all too and it embarrasses me. They haven't raised it with me ... I got there first. I explained things are very different in the UK. I think they feel a twinge of sympathy for my DH whenever he slips up because they know he's probably going to get told off by me when we're alone.

Having said all that, I think there's more to your daughter's bf than just a culture difference. I'm afraid he sounds like a bit of a creep. Watch him closely. And maybe calling this out now will help your daughter to see him for who he is, instead of everyone supporting her denial by participating in a delusion that there's nothing odd about it.

My husband and my son are both British and this is very definitely not our culture. My husband never picks up a fork until everyone is seated and, even though I am a strong woman, prefers to do all the heavy lifting despite being ten years older. My son treats me with great respect. So does my daughter's boyfriend.

I hope this doesn't sound snobby, it's not supposed to, but perhaps it is a class thing?

Abra1t · 23/01/2023 15:06

No, scrub that last para because the men I work with in an outdoor job come from all kinds of backgrounds and would not behave rudely like that.

Emotionalsupportviper · 23/01/2023 15:15

wednesdaynamesep · 23/01/2023 14:10

So, your husband

  1. Stands whenever a woman walks into a room. Always.
  2. Let's all women serve themselves first at a buffet before getting his own food. Just because they are women. Always.
  3. Opens doors for you wherever you go
  4. Comes out of the house when he hears your car to check if you need help with the shopping bags
  5. Gives up his seat everywhere (public transport, private homes etc) to women irrespective of whether they are pregnant, elderly etc
  6. Walks on the roadside of the pavement whenever walking alongside a woman
  7. Never ever walks through a door ahead of you and always opens it.
  8. Pours all your drinks for you (this is the thing my DH actually does do at home)
  9. Etc.

If you say yes to all of this, I just wouldn't believe you. If you say no, then your husband is an arsehole too (by your standards).

  1. No - not necessary. Probably would have done if the Queen had popped in.
  2. Yes - good manners
  3. Usually - not if he is carrying stuff, then I do it
  4. Yes
  5. Not if they are younger and fitter than him, as he has ankylosing spondylitis, but elderly, frail, pregnant women, or women carrying young children - yes
  6. Yes
  7. Unless his arms are full, yes
  8. Frequently, not always. To always do it is slightly controlling IMO
- means he decides whether or not you can have a drink. Generally one of us will say "Do you fancy . . . " and either gets up or the other says - "Yes, don't get up, I'll get it." Depends who is trapped under a cat or a spaniel. This doesn't bother either of us as we are both capable of pouring a cup of tea/ sherry/ lime and soda/ beer/ whatever

9, Depends what etc means

Face it wednesday - he is not quite the prince you think he is.

Silvers11 · 23/01/2023 15:17

DaveyJonesLocker · 23/01/2023 09:45

If someone could find the previous thread it would be helpful, I can't remember it, I remember when your daughter had invited them.

Put the pets in kennels. You don't want people in your home when you're not there. It's perfectly normal for people not to want people staying in their house alone.

I do think you're going to need to talk to your daughter about how she may feel that your house is her home but that doesn't make it hers to offer out.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/christmas/4706608-our-guests-are-hinting-that-they-are-going-to-stay-longer-than-wanted-how-to-find-the-words

Emotionalsupportviper · 23/01/2023 15:17

Your DD might actually be scared to say No to the DP but you need to say no to both of them

I wondered this @uncomfortablydumb53 - the DD might be being coerced, bullied or gaslighted. She might be over the moon if her parents drew a line under this behaviour, because then she would't feel pressured to comply.

BunchHarman · 23/01/2023 15:21

@wednesdaynamesep I think your husband is just rude as shit, nothing to do with being British or working/middle class, whatever you’ve alluded to subsequently.

You married a dud.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/01/2023 15:25

Do you think the OP will come back?

Maybe with a namechange and another thread, but it looks as if the responses on this one may not be to her taste - even those asking how she feels about the various suggestions made

It's unusual on Mumsnet to get almost total agreement, but of course only OP can make the necessary changes here since nobody else is going to

DoristheDuchess · 23/01/2023 15:32

I think you're right Puzzled

I'm not trying to be melodramatic, but all the details do seem very odd when you piece everything together. It very clearly stands out as an attempt to get the OP out of her home so the BF can get in.

I'm sure the scenery is lovely but I'm not convinced that's the sole reason he'd want to trek straight back up there.

Back2Back2t · 23/01/2023 15:34

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/01/2023 15:25

Do you think the OP will come back?

Maybe with a namechange and another thread, but it looks as if the responses on this one may not be to her taste - even those asking how she feels about the various suggestions made

It's unusual on Mumsnet to get almost total agreement, but of course only OP can make the necessary changes here since nobody else is going to

Yeah she's gone for now and I don't believe for one second she'll take any of the sensible responses on here. She'll probably wiggle herself out of it by making something up but the red herring still remains.

User305 · 23/01/2023 15:38

All this standing up if a woman comes into a room and pouring them drinks is something I personally would find sexist and very annoying. It doesn't mean that the man in question respects the woman - it's just a custom which is less common here than it is in some other places, and which can sometimes really have the purpose of accentuating the different position between the sexes, to the detriment of women. There's a difference between doing things because they suit your skillset / are a fair share of work / are considerate and complying with old-fashioned conventions for the sake of it. If he's sitting around while others are working, or taking food before everyone else - that is rude and selfish.

User305 · 23/01/2023 15:39

Having said that, he should comply with those conventions while staying in somebody else's family in a different country.

Silvers11 · 23/01/2023 15:40

Stravaig · 23/01/2023 14:18

OP! Stop identifying DD's boyfriend and his parents as the problem.

You and your husband are the problem.
You lack assertiveness.
You don't communicate clearly.
You don't have strong or appropriate boundaries with your adult children. Or with anyone else, I suspect.

You and your husband need to improve your skills in these areas.
The benefits?

Your home will be secure.
Everyone will be clear about what acceptable behaviour is.
Your relationships will be healthier, and built on genuine love, not fear.
Your children will respect you - and will be able to follow your example in their own lives.

(I read and participated in the previous thread too.)

I'm sorry @Duvetdaysaregood but this poster is spot on. I too read your previous posts too.

Have you always been frightened to tell your DD 'No' in case you lose her? That is not a healthy attitude to have. Sure, sometimes our children - even Adult ones - are not happy with our decisions about things and get annoyed. But that does not mean that we need to be doormats.

Not only should you be telling your daughter that you don't want him alone in the house while you are away and the reasons why, you should also be changing the lock on the door so that your daughter's key doesn't work ( so she can't give it to him while you are away) and don't tell her that you have done so until after the weekend. Just let her complain. Don't get angry with her - just be matter of fact and say it is not up for discussion. She MAY be miffed for a bit, but if you have a good relationship with her generally, she'll get over it.

Turnthelightoff · 23/01/2023 15:43

Just tell her you want to tidy up and come home to the house in the state you left it? Or are planning to strip and air every bed/wash the curtains and leave them drying so the house is not fit for visitors.

overthink4r · 23/01/2023 15:44

You are a prisoner to your DD and her BF? How do you know this thoughtful gift isn't just a ploy to have you leave the house?

This needs stopping now! My parents wouldn't give a flying F offending me as I would know better to let people stay by proxy? You do not need excuses you need the truth and to lay down the law of YOUR home. If your DD doesn't understand this then clearly you all pander.

LookItsMeAgain · 23/01/2023 15:47

Does anyone remember a TV series in the 1980's called "Ever Decreasing Circles"? The OP is giving me vibes of Hilda (from Howard & Hilda) from this sitcom. They were always trying to find the silver lining, not rock the boat and so on.

I don't know what it is but that's the impression I'm getting now.

@Duvetdaysaregood - please get yourself some assertiveness training. Being assertive doesn't mean that you're being rude, it means that you have decided on what you think is acceptable and you stand by those boundaries. It also doesn't mean that you're aggressive either. You stand up for yourself.

It can feel very strange at first and then empowering. Please start feeling empowered in your own home.

Our guests are hinting they wont leave .. continued thread …
TedMullins · 23/01/2023 15:48

wednesdaynamesep · 23/01/2023 14:10

So, your husband

  1. Stands whenever a woman walks into a room. Always.
  2. Let's all women serve themselves first at a buffet before getting his own food. Just because they are women. Always.
  3. Opens doors for you wherever you go
  4. Comes out of the house when he hears your car to check if you need help with the shopping bags
  5. Gives up his seat everywhere (public transport, private homes etc) to women irrespective of whether they are pregnant, elderly etc
  6. Walks on the roadside of the pavement whenever walking alongside a woman
  7. Never ever walks through a door ahead of you and always opens it.
  8. Pours all your drinks for you (this is the thing my DH actually does do at home)
  9. Etc.

If you say yes to all of this, I just wouldn't believe you. If you say no, then your husband is an arsehole too (by your standards).

Interested to know what culture you're from that all this is normal and expected, because I would bet that the flipside of it is misogyny and women not being able to do certain things themselves, or it not being deemed 'proper' for them to do them.

Personally I would absolutely hate it if my partner did any of those things you list - I don't want to be treated like a damsel in distress. Nor would I care if he served himself first at a buffet or poured himself a drink before anyone else. But I don't value tradition, etiquette and made-up social niceties because a lot of the time they're used to cover for oppressive or negative expectations, e.g. women not being allowed as much autonomy.

Totally off topic, sorry!

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 23/01/2023 15:48

😵‍💫

EllieM27 · 23/01/2023 15:50

@Duvetdaysaregood

My friend did something similar to your daughter when we were younger. Her boyfriend was a tosser, opportunistic, mildly criminal, etc. Just like your daughter’s boyfriend I’m sure he would have loved to marry into their family. Her parents removed her access to the things that made her appealing to him (nice houses, cars, trips, events) and cooled the relationship with her a bit. They let them get on with their relationship on their own terms and with what their daughter could manage on her own. Shockingly the chap lost interest in her relatively quickly once all the stuff he liked was taken away. His mask started slipping, he was no longer treating her like his golden goose, and they broke up. In hindsight she was suitably embarrassed about the whole thing.

Remove the things that are making your daughter appealing to this opportunistic twerp, including access to your house. You aren’t going to permanently lose her if you put a little distance between you and let her see him for what he is. Is she prone to throwing fits when she doesn’t get her way, trying to manipulate you? If so, this can be a wake up call for her too.

From what and how you have described him, the reason this has become long term is because you are enabling it/them. Make it clear that marrying your daughter isn’t going to give him a meal ticket (at least, not through you) and see how it plays out.

stemthetide · 23/01/2023 15:50

Just tell her you want to tidy up and come home to the house in the state you left it? Or are planning to strip and air every bed/wash the curtains and leave them drying so the house is not fit for visitors.

No. Tell her you don't want anyone staying in your house. All these silly lies and excuses just make it likely it will happen again.

Kyokyo · 23/01/2023 15:51

Sounds like you’ve got no choice but to change your locks anyway though ? Otherwise you’ll forever be worrying about whether he will turn up with your daughters key

Also you can get pet sitters who stay in your home whilst your away. That way you can say that you’ve already arranged for someone to be with the dogs and that as they are a live in sitter, it wouldn’t be appropriate for your bf to stay

And if she asks why your paying for a sitter instead of letting her bf do it for free, you say that a professional pet sitter has pet insurance/and/or pet first aid, so if anything were to happen to the dogs they will be covered by a professional whereas it would be unfair to put the responsibility on the bf in case something serious happened to the dogs

AluckyEllie · 23/01/2023 15:51

@Duvetdaysaregood You refuse. Say ‘oh no we’ll get a pet/house sitter.’ Be firm but polite. You need to let her know he isn’t welcome in the home alone. To be honest I would be changing the locks and making sure he didn’t have a key (or her sadly.) Get a ring doorbell so you can see who enters the house just in case. And when they come over you need to call him out on the bad behaviour - ‘don’t you know it’s rude to go into a ladies room without permission.’ ‘Have you been snooping again,’ but in a joky way. Call him out on it in a friendlyish way but embarrass him.

Is she your only child? Is she fairly young/first serious relationship? Sounds like she’s head over heels for him and putting up with bad behaviour, hopefully she’ll come around. Don’t help them financially as he is a taker. Don’t let his family stay again. If your daughter asks just make sure you have other guests staying. If he mentions it ‘yes we get lots of people wanting to stay, it’s a lovely area.’

Hellybelly84 · 23/01/2023 15:53

Im sorry but its your home and its perfectly ok not to ask anyone to stay in it whilst you are away. Its not a free for all! Have a chat with your daughter and explain that to her. If she doesn’t understand and gets offended, you’ll just have to miss the weekend.

Emotionalsupportviper · 23/01/2023 15:54

TedMullins · 23/01/2023 15:48

Interested to know what culture you're from that all this is normal and expected, because I would bet that the flipside of it is misogyny and women not being able to do certain things themselves, or it not being deemed 'proper' for them to do them.

Personally I would absolutely hate it if my partner did any of those things you list - I don't want to be treated like a damsel in distress. Nor would I care if he served himself first at a buffet or poured himself a drink before anyone else. But I don't value tradition, etiquette and made-up social niceties because a lot of the time they're used to cover for oppressive or negative expectations, e.g. women not being allowed as much autonomy.

Totally off topic, sorry!

I thought that, too - it is infantilising women.

The line between good manners and patronising behaviour isa narrow one.

2bazookas · 23/01/2023 16:00

Kennel the pets, or make some other arrangement for a friend to come in . or live in, and feed /clean excercise etc.

Then reply " No thanks, we have other arrangements in place and don't need BF's help.

BF seems to have misread our hospitality to him. This is not "his base". We have not, and will not, permit him to stay here when we are away from home., and I want your assurance on that please".

Rstuvwxyz · 23/01/2023 16:06

Duvetdaysaregood · 23/01/2023 09:46

Anyrandom name .. great suggestion .. woukd do that But.. my fear is that dd will say yes but look bf wants to stay and have a break . She knows other people have done it in our home . Can he stay? Why not. Xyz do ?

Just say you’re not comfortable lending your house to him. Surely that can be said without causing offence? It is your house at the end of the day. Wifh daughter not being there, she can’t be too upset at the reality of you not being keen of him being alone there.

Excuses could be:you don’t know him well enough, you’d feel more comfortable if a family member was house sitting, you feel like the dogs need someone more experienced, you’ve got an electrician coming round so you’d prefer the house empty/X friend to be there instead?