Tories aren’t even bothering to hide their NHS privatisation plan anymore

[Letshaveablackcelebration2022]

I think it was possible Noam Chomsky who said that the route to all privatisation of services was that first they run it totally into the ground and then they offer up a private model as a solution . It’s actually tedious in its predictability. Pillaging everything good from the country- Royal Mail, water, utilities, rail network, even housing via private landlords - everything to make profit.

And of course as predicted, the NHS was the final prize.

Yeah well that's true too :( it would need non-political professionals designing a suitable system using ideas from countries that run better systems. But then both parties would chuck amendments at it until its completely unworkable.

I agree. It’s impossible to carry on as we are.

Ask any healthcare professional and they will say the issue isn’t nhs funding it’s social care funding. Until we fix social care we’re not going to be able to fix the nhs. So so many people in nhs beds as they don’t have social care. You could throw all the money there is at the nhs and it won’t help because what we need is social care (and a fundamental change in the countries approach to care of the elderly and aging)

But again, as I keep saying, why does it have to be the private sector is the only saviour. As I said before, neoliberal bollocks playing into the idea that the private sector do it better. Which given the state of everything else that’s been privatised, has not been proven the case.

Like in The majority of the EU you mean?
We pay now... Just not at the point of access.
Personally I pay a bloomin lot, can I chuff access services without practically challenging reception staff to a dual to the death.
Im Almost certain private would be considerably cheaper for me and my family, small charges to access services like A&E would reduce the burden and make users consider if their use was actualy essential. the few times ive been the majority of people in the waiting rooms havent been.

We have a home in France and whilst the system there has some problems it is so much better than the NHS. The interactions with patients are very much more respectful and professional.

The French system is so much better & far more efficient. But we have completely different cultures & that's reflected in their social system. How do you implement one without the other?

Until we fix social care we’re not going to be able to fix the nhs

True & no one wants that conversation because no one wants to fund it.

@torquewench
"And did I say anything about not making it free at the point of use? No I didn't."

But the entire thread is based on Javid's proposal that using the healthcare service, that as you correctly state you've already paid tax and NI for, should no longer be free at the point of use, but should cost £10 or whatever per visit. The Conservatives are stealing what you already own and then charging you to use it.

It is the thin edge of the wedge. Look at what happened to NHS dentistry. Millions of people can no longer afford a private dentist and cannot find a NHS dentist. Javid's solution will result in the same situation arising in primary care. Those who can afford to pay for a GP will be able to see one, GPs will move to areas where there are the most fee-paying patients (who will become "customers") and everyone else can literally fuck off and die.

@Havanananana YES! Exactly everything you say!

1. Fewer cancellations than today
2. Guaranteed connections; free taxi to your destination if they messed up
3. Free taxi if they cancelled last train
4. Better buffet cars

main problem was lack of information. And that was because technology wasn’t what it is today.

Because the level of change of change is so drastic and brutal
Labour and unions would be up in arms

Like in The majority of the EU you mean?

The Conservatives and their press want you to believe this but it is not correct. Most people in the EU do NOT pay to see a GP, and in the countries where an up-front payment is charged, this is often refunded through the mutual health insurance systems.

Let the nhs go to hell in a handcart. Fund the torys and their mates with all the banck handed deals that will line their pockets...then start paying through the nose for every tablet, every plaster, every boil, every bunion, every ingrown toenail. The Tories have been in cahoots with healthcare companies in AMERICA, yep that's right AMERICA , that world renowned healthcare system that is famous for its stellar care. The same one that unless you are wealthy you will get no or bargain basement healthcare. Not German healthcare nor French healthcare companies that were consulted .....AMERICAN healthcare companies. The country that gives you a few weeks maternity care, and little to no time off if you happen to be unfortunate enough to get cancer and need chemotherapy. A family members experience.

If this is what you want...vote Tory , you will pay for it either financially or personally.

Ps people in the US are dying because they can't afford insulin in 2023, if that doesn't wake you up ...nothing will.

Dentistry is interesting though. My dentist is going to stop taking on NHS patients not directly because of money but because the NHS has made the process of claiming for the work so bureaucratic and so deeply prescriptive such that professional judgement can no longer be used when sorting out a treatment plan. Also because the local level meetings are so numerous and the interactions with people in the local health economy are so difficult.

Another idiocy of the NHS is the blanket exemptions. I have hypothyroidism and have therefore got every prescription free since 1990. Some one with type1 diabetes or asthma gets nothing free. DH and I are over 60. Notwithstanding my already free prescriptions we now get all prescriptions free, a free flu jab and free eye tests. We are both still working full-time and fit into the UK's top 1% of earners.

When I last sat in A&E there was someone there with a cut finger that did not need stitches, just to be held up for 20 minutes to stop it bleeding. That person, in my opinion, should have received an invoice.

I think many think they would prefer the American model. There is a real hang up in this country about others getting more than you. People will cut their noses off despite their faces.

When I last sat in A&E there was someone there with a cut finger that did not need stitches, just to be held up for 20 minutes to stop it bleeding. That person, in my opinion, should have received an invoice.

Why an invoice? Why not triage and a diversion to minor injuries? How does a layperson know what needs stitches and what doesn’t?

The Tory apologists on here going on about the budget as if it's all being used effectively.

Many bits of the NHS have already been privatised, and are therefore costing us/the NHS more than they would have had they still been under NHS control.

And don't forget that all the fraudulent PPE, the ridiculous Test & Trace, and even the cost of storing and destroying the useless PPE is coming out of that headline figure. Tory donors given billions to create useless PPE and then given more billions to destroy it. And the haven't even prosecuted Michelle Mone yet...

Javid's proposal is simply idiotic. Having mis-diagnosed the problem, he comes up with the wrong solution.

Javid said the NHS’s only rationing mechanism – to make people wait – should be replaced by means-tested fees, while “protecting those on low incomes”.
“This conversation will not be easy, but it can help the NHS ration its finite supply more effectively.”

Note the concept of "rationing" that Javid refers to twice. Why is there rationing and why is there a finite supply of healthcare?

There are far fewer doctors and nurses per capita in the UK than in almost all other EU countries and other modern developed countries. The UK spends far less per capita on healthcare than most developed countries and has done for decades, resulting in too few qualified staff, too few beds, too little equipment etc. When he was Health Secretary, Hunt failed to invest the required funds in the NHS, imposed a bad deal on the junior doctors and claimed that training more doctors and nurses would be a waste of time and money because they would be "trained for unemployment."

He could not have been more wrong. The future demand was clear - it is not as though millions of people suddenly turned 65; the governments of the last 30 years have had the population statistics available to them at the touch of a button. At a time when it was clear that there would be even greater demands on the health service, Hunt cut investment to the bone and the catastrophic results of his bad decisions are now clear for all to see. That Hunt, a supporter of the American-style health insurance system, is anywhere near Government and is an insult to millions of patients, whether they are waiting to see a doctor or waiting for hours in fear and pain for an ambulance to appear.

Dedicated Labour supporters need to come up with more than this. Their plans are bad.

What do you mean? Most payers know they are lower users already.

I wouldn’t want the US system anyway.

What makes you think I'm a Labour supporter?

I just hate the Tories.

Saying that Labour's plans are very good is hardly a recommendation to let the Tories carry on privatising it! Typical Tory thinking...

*not very good...

If only English voters would look across the border and see how much better the NHS is under Labour in Wales.

"people in the US are dying because they can't afford insulin in 2023, if that doesn't wake you up ...nothing will."#

People in the UK are waiting over two hours for an ambulance even when they have had a stroke or heart attack. If they are not seen within an hour, their chances of survival are severely diminished.

Over 7 million people are waiting for a hospital appointment - their conditions deteriorating all the time that they wait, and their work and daily lives being impacted. By the time some of them are seen, the diagnosis will be that their condition has deteriorated so far that surgery is no longer viable.

This would simply not be tolerated anywhere else in the developed world, let - the politicians responsible would be kicked out. In the UK, the country that likes to boast that it is the 5th/6th/7th wealthiest economy on the planet, people have become conditioned to the fact and the appalling situation is seen as just "business as usual". If the British population hasn't already woken up, it seems they never will.

@Moonmelodies . Very well put. The NHs is so much better in those socialist administrations.