Tories aren’t even bothering to hide their NHS privatisation plan anymore

[Letshaveablackcelebration2022]

I think it was possible Noam Chomsky who said that the route to all privatisation of services was that first they run it totally into the ground and then they offer up a private model as a solution . It’s actually tedious in its predictability. Pillaging everything good from the country- Royal Mail, water, utilities, rail network, even housing via private landlords - everything to make profit.

And of course as predicted, the NHS was the final prize.

@rwalker before covid my step was accepted for cataracts. After the first lockdown he was told he was no longer eligible as the bar had been raised and his cataracts had to get worse (he was already losing confidence driving). He asked the consultant about having them.done privately. Consultant's response "I can do the first one on Friday". Same hospital, same theatre, just £2.5k.

@MarshaMelrose because that’s who Rishi has been dining out with- US healthcare companies! The tories want the one that makes them the most money - they aren’t in it for the public good are they 😂

I'm afraid anything this toxic Government suggests is likely to be dodgy and all about making big bucks for their dodgy mates. It's all a slippery slope and if we have the US-style of funding via insurance, well, it won't be Britain any more. Personally I don't see why some people shouldn't pay something, I mean ffs compare with nursing fees where a family can be shelling about £1.5K a week, week in week out, for years until the money runs out and get Sweet FA in terms of care, it's a racket, compare that with getting good care often with the NHS and not having to pay anything at all, even the food on the ward is free whereas if you were sat at home you'd be paying for your own sustenance.

We took advantage of our insurance to go private with Mum in the Northey Suite in Epsom General Hospital in 2014 when one care home we were paying about £800 a week nearly killed her - no repercussions, natch. In contrast with the other NHS ward she'd spent a week on before it was a horrible atmosphere and I suspect that after they volunteered her for free NHS Fast-track Continuing Care she was put on a variation of the Liverpool Care Pathway because after that we couldn't get her next care home Barchester's Reigate Beaumont to give her enough drink. Things got nasty when we pressed the issue, culminating a campaign of harassment directed by Surrey County Council. So I have bad feelings about the whole going private thing.

Other countries pay and we’re not ready to discuss impact of demographic changes and low health

Not sure paying is the answer as same group subsidies the exempt

Oh my god. Rishi has dinner with US healthcare companies! 😱 So what. They might be able to offer better deals on equipment, basic ops, processing plants, testing. It could be anything.
And if you are against private investment, its not the Tories that started PFI. Be more afraid of Labour and their "quick fixes".
Actually, be more afraid that neither of these two parties are going to do anything that sets the nhs on a path to cope with the C21st.

The NHS needs reform and a system of payments, similar to some EU countries, might be the way to do it, but I absolutely would not trust the Tories to do it.

I agree. We pay our NI and the service is run as if in the private sector. Any underperforming managers will be out on their ear.
They will have to account for every penny spent so out goes wasting perfectly good equipment, out goes all the woo jobs on 115 grand a year
Many of these "suits" have it too cushy for too many years and need prove that they are actually necessary. The government that implements this will get my vote!!

@MarshaMelrose yea because Rishi is SO trustworthy isn’t he 😂

@Letshaveablackcelebration2022 a different system where money changes hands doesn't have to be the same as in the US. We need to look at the systems in Canada, Australia and across the Continent.

We have a home in France and whilst the system there has some problems it is so much better than the NHS. The interactions with patients are very much more respectful and professional.

I had an accident in the foothills of the Pyrenees about 18 months ago. The Samu were prompt and I was in bed, in a single room, in a spotless hospital in Perpgnan within about six hours. My wrist was pinned and plated 48 hours later. When I saw a consultant in the UK when he shook his head and said that would have taken 10 days here and you'd have walked out of A&E to cope at home.

We've known for the last 15 years of voting:(

Well, it's already cost me a fortune in tax and NI, so that's not a valid argument.

And did I say anything about not making it free at the point of use? No I didn't.

@NewspaperTaxis I sympathise. Epsom General Hospital is something else altogether and the local healthcare economy is equally poor. I would not consent to receiving treatment there and avoid its consultants even privately. There is something deeply toxic in the area.

@DressingForRevenge totally agree!

Labour won’t or can’t suggest it either so we’ll be stuck with their quite baffling ideas which won’t help. Probably make it worse.

We get hung up on it because we know leading tories such as Hunt and Sunsak aee focused on the US system. Its no point me identifying that I like the German system when they have written books about the US and had talks with leading providers over there.

Exactly. It is so boring that the same troupe is trotted out time and again. The NHS is no more privatised now than it was 20. years ago. No government is going to privatise the NHS. HOWEVER, the system needs overhauling, and a new funding model implemented. Literally anywhere else in the world has a better system than ours (excluding the US).

Also, there are literally millions of people who are unable to heat their homes and put food on the table at the moment. Charging people for appointments just means poor people won’t be able to access healthcare and so we will return even more to a 2 tier system as per pre NHS - people will just die of treatable illness. Its exactly what Nye Bevan wanted to end when he proposed the NHS.

The NHS needs complete reform, anyone who doesn’t realise that is part of the problem. The little Englander view that we can’t learn anything from the far superior European systems is so tedious. The NHS is a shambles, stop worshipping it and stop banging about the US.

The British public are very protective of their NHS and wouldn't tolerate an open attempt to privatise it, so doing it by a process of slow strangulation will not look so obvious. If you run it down so much that people can no longer access the parts they need, it will seem like a better option to just pay for it.

Of course understand what it means - it would mean a much more efficient health service with none, or at least less of the waste that occurs now.

And I obviously didn't mean literally overnight! Jeez!

Most companies outsource because it can work out cheaper, and there's a fixed cost.
I don't think many people realise that the NHS already outsources lots of activities to private companies. DH has a scan at a private company in Oxford last week, though he's being cared for under the NHS. (Outsourcing = privatising).

Agree with this, particularly your last paragraph.

Many may feel this way, but a lot certainly don’t! Like other posters have pointed, so much is already outsourced and many know it’s a failing system that needs a big shake up. The only ones I know currently who are really protective of it are the ones who work in it.

The NHS has imploded - it is completely broken. It needs the mother of all overhauls, and the NHS can’t continue to be everything to everyone any longer.

The reason it hasn’t happened before is the untouchable nature not even allowing a discussion about reform, but the pandemic was the final straw.

Even Keir is saying something drastic must be done, I don’t think anyone can save it, and quite frankly we should have started to reform it decades ago when it was obvious to government advisors and statisticians that we could not continue servicing seventy million ageing people. It is an impossible feat.

As usual there would be exemptions - and a large proportion of users would be subsidised.

This puts me off it but I do think people are terrible at facing the issues with the NHS model

OK then I concede. Let's make the taxpayer shoulder the burden forever.

And while we're at it, only use ambulances built by the government/NHS coach builder, have them serviced by NHS mechanics, and run on NHS fuel. Let's have every single item used by the NHS manufactured in-house in NHS factories - beds, bedding, uniforms, light bulbs, chairs, clipboards, everything. Let's only use medicines, scanners and all other equipment made in NHS factories. Any new builds or maintenance - done by NHS builders.

After all we can't have any nasty capitalists making a profit off "our NHS", can we?

Ohhh waaiit, it's just the treatment part you're crying about?