To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?

[BarmyBrunhilde]

Full disclosure, I happily accept most trans people I've met as their transitioned gender which I know puts me at odds with most people on MN. But as a feminist and a lefty, even if one views trans women as men which I don't, in terms of political priorities it ranks so list on my list of concerns. I assume that applies to most people too (trans people included!).

What someone has listed on their birth certificate has no impact on my life, and surely minimal impact on most women's lives? Imo we should be focusing on cost of living crisis, housing, properly funding women's services including rape crisis services, funding childcare, sorting out the health service and bloody schools! Gender recognition comes way below those for me (even though I'm broadly supportive with some checks in place).

I know gender criticals won't agree with me, and maybe some trans people who feel very strongly, but I do feel there's a silent majority of us who just aren't that fussed?

I'd be interested to know what anyone thinks the solution /answer is.

Do you honestly think if you just repeat your stance for the rest of time people will stop identifying as trans?

People are not identifying as trans though are they? They are identifying as the opposite sex.

Correct, but I dont make the laws, do I? So what is the solution?

Let me phrase it differently.

How do you know that the man on the bus wearing a girls uniform is a 'nutter' (your term) and not a genuine trans person?

How can you be so sure? The police are afraid to take action against this man because they can't tell? So how can you tell?

How can you tell the difference between a transwoman living their authentic life and a nutter on a bus?

What is the definition? How can that definition be used to help women and children, be protected from the ones who are not genuine?

And forced fawning by vulnerable women who have a much higher likelihood of being survivor of csa or rape or male violence.

You cant have it both ways. I'm told.daily on here its impossible to change sex and men are not women.
When I concede that for the sake of argument to save that response every single time I post, you want me to trip me up on that wording too

I gave it upthread.
Single sex spaces.

This would not prevent anyone from wearing what they want or having sex with whichever consenting adult they want to have sex with.

It's very simple.

Unless gender fans can explain what "identifying as a woman" means, it means nothing useful, and I'm not interested in it as a reason for why women should lose sex-based rights.

So do, or don't. I'll concentrate on posts which actually engage with the important issues, and posters who are capable of a rational argument.

I dont have the answers to that. If I did I wouldnt be on mumsnet on a Saturday afternoon.

But neither does anyone else. We are all just arguing back and forward about nonsense because it's gone so far now on both sides that I dont see any form of solution in lifetime.

And forced fawning by vulnerable women who have a much higher likelihood of being survivor of csa or rape or male violence.

Yes, it's awful.

The solution is very simple.

We don't base laws on things that can't be defined.

Single sex spaces.

Gender fans 🤣

Enter 'il engage with posters who agree with me and who I deem intelligent enough to be on my level' other than of course to make your interspersed digs at posters you deem beneath you.

I'm still interested in your solution to the issue?

Well trans people can exist. But they are not women they are their birth sex. Telling them they aren’t women (which they aren’t) doesn’t stop them existing. They can be their birth sex, they might not identify with the stereo types linked to that sex, they might need counselling to be happier in their bodies after trauma, they might need a safe pace to exercise their autogynophillia where it won’t affect women. But no one is stopping them existing, far from it, it’s just keeping them in reality

I agree.

But that has rarely been discussed here. We have delved into nonsense about men on buses.

I agree with single sex spaces.

The solution is very simple.

We don't base laws on things that can't be defined.

Single sex spaces.

Yes. It's the only fair solution. No males in female spaces. Gender is a social construct. Sex is why we have the spaces.

sex-matters.org/

sorry, but that's transphobic.

To campaign to strengthen the language used in the laws and guidance. That is just the start.

Here is a petition to start with

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2?page=1

Continue to support organisations who do support female people of any gender and have clear definitions.

These are pretty wide reaching actions that incorporate many different activities. But I am sure we can list them if you need it done.

Would you prefer fallacy? It it blatantly, demonstrably true that mammals cannot change sex. At all. Reality is unkind.

Trans people may wish to present as a different gender, and more power to their elbow. Annie Lennox and Marilyn and Grace Jones and Pete Burns all did so 40 years ago. It’s not new.

What is new is claiming this means they need access to opposite sex facilities.

Where people are unhappy using the single sex provisions for their sex, I am happy to add my voice to theirs to request a third space. That’s a reasonable and proportionate response.

Handing over the rights, security and spaces of women and girls is not.

Claiming that identifying is meaningless is pretending trans isnt a meaningful thing, equals doesnt exist.

Or do you agree that they exist but just dont give a fuck about their thoughts and feelings and dismiss them?

Do trans people disappear in a puff of smoke of I refuse to deny material reality?

You haven't been able to define what identifying means and seem to think it's an unreasonable question. The fact that some of us are asking suggests "identifying" as anything is not a universal experience. Are you saying that if everyone else refuses to validate someone's internal, unverifiable sense of self then that person doesn't exist?

Could you try to keep the emotionally manipulative accusations to a minimum. It usually pays not assume what anyone's experience of the trans community is before you start doing that.

what specifically is transphobic?

sex-matters.org/take-action/make-the-equality-act-clear/

I'm not being emotionally manipulative or assuming anything, thanks. I stand by my statement.

You cant have it both ways. I'm told.daily on here its impossible to change sex and men are not women.

That's correct and it's not having it both ways. You spoke of people "identifying as trans", that would be accurate and honest but that's not what's happening is it?

Can you define who then uses those single sex spaces.