To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?

[BarmyBrunhilde]

Full disclosure, I happily accept most trans people I've met as their transitioned gender which I know puts me at odds with most people on MN. But as a feminist and a lefty, even if one views trans women as men which I don't, in terms of political priorities it ranks so list on my list of concerns. I assume that applies to most people too (trans people included!).

What someone has listed on their birth certificate has no impact on my life, and surely minimal impact on most women's lives? Imo we should be focusing on cost of living crisis, housing, properly funding women's services including rape crisis services, funding childcare, sorting out the health service and bloody schools! Gender recognition comes way below those for me (even though I'm broadly supportive with some checks in place).

I know gender criticals won't agree with me, and maybe some trans people who feel very strongly, but I do feel there's a silent majority of us who just aren't that fussed?

Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4668404-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex

Gosh, and you've really engaged in this good faith throughout this thread anyone can see that! The really specific and pertinent points about how GRCs interact with access to women's spaces were especially illuminating. 🤗

😂the fact that you haven’t even had the balls (excuse my turn of phrase) to come back about the death certificates, completely ignored is that you are only interested in setting people off, and then just refuting what you can refute.

And you can’t refute that death certificates which change sex are problematic and have bad consequences. So you won’t engage at all.

This is what is funny about those who are anti GC. No ability to look at real data!

trans people should not be able to change their legal sex in any circurmstances

And what about non-binaries? What are they changing their legal sex to?

Yep. Using the term "the gender criticals" is such a giveaway. Plus the asymmetrical standards of proof.

On one side, "gender identity is real because people say it is. Trans women are women because they say they are. Any disagreement to this, no matter how carefully and considerately and carefully approached, must be silenced because it creates an atmosphere in which trans people feel unsafe"

On the other, "I will not accept concerns that increasing the ease with which male people can legally become women, unless you provide concrete examples of individual problems that could never occur without the GRC. The cumulative impact of lowering the bar of entry to legal womanhood by males, the fundamental redefining womanhood which furthers the dismantling of female-only rights and spaces in law and practice, isn't important because it's happening anyway so GRCs aren't really a problem and you shoukd just suck it up".

Why does the GRA exist? Is it going to not exist sometime soon?

A GRC or a letter from doctor or consultant stating the gender identity is likely to be permanent (you don't get that overnight) to update passport.

If bill is passed then no medical diagnosis is required and GRC becomes the way forward for passport updates. But the process would be that straightforward anybody could literally get one.

GRC issued and new passport acquired.

New sex, new job (at a DV shelter maybe) for female only applicants. But hey, got the passport to prove it so DV shelter would be breaking law by excluding you as an applicant based on sex 🤷🏼‍♀️.

But fuck those women fleeing domestic violence eh op? Who've just escaped a violent male abuser and don't want to be within 2 miles of man.

If it's that easy then the trans community will become diluted with people abusing the ease of the process to obtain a GRC. It's not hard to comprehend that some people could use it for nefarious reasons.

Its not at all rare. That's absolutely my position. It only looks problematic if you believe that your identity is restricted by your body. I am not old fashioned enough to believe that. Men can wear dresses, make up, high heels, sleep with other men etc. All good! 'Woman' is just about biology. If it weren't, most shorter, weaker, prone to bleeding out of their privates, able to grow a baby poople are no longer women and there's no one left for TW to 'feel like'.

A giveaway of what exactly?

Gosh, and you've really engaged in this good faith throughout this thread anyone can see that! The really specific and pertinent points about how GRCs interact with access to women's spaces were especially illuminating. 🤗

May i refer you to my question about Haldane and the effect on access to female school changing rooms if 16 year old males are able to obtain a GRC.

DEATH CERTIFICATES.

Facts. Data.

Very important to be accurate. 😊

Very bad to change sex on a death certificate and not be accurate. As a specific request of GRC. 😞

yes - no one should be able to lie about their sex. But that doesn’t mean that the GRR isn’t a problem- it makes it easier for people to lie about their sex and in fact ti get a legal certificate stating they are the sex that they are not. This interferes with the operation of the uK wide equality act.

but I agree that the whole thing should be repealed. We should not provide any mechanism for people to pretend they are the opposite sex (any more than we should allow them to change their date of birth for example if they say they feel younger or older). Facts are facts.

Legal fiction to legitimise gay marriage. Since that's now legal It should be abolished.

Please answer my questions rather than deflecting.

@lifeturnsonadime

See my post above.
If you don't have a GRC then a letter from doctor or consultant stating gender identity is likely to be permanent. Obviously not going to be issued after a phone call.

Only a man would wish to trample over the rights and dignity of women and girls. Starting this thread with your faux ‘help me understand’ crap, then wilfully ignoring the intelligent and informed women who question you.

No true feminist would ever support this nonsense.

I certainly hope so. The GRA is state sanctioned mysogny

Correctly recording people's sex is important. In medical research it is known that laboratory rats behave differently when the researcher is a man and when it is a woman. Lab assistant with GRC means worse medicine for everyone

Where do you go where everyone is just showing naked together?? I’ve never been anywhere that I’ve needed to shower next to a naked stranger. I’m so perplexed by the idea that I need to worry about my children being somewhere where they are having to shower with naked adults of any gender.

What's a gender identity?

How do I know if I have one?

Why should a gender identity enable a person to falsify sex on a passport.

If a person says there gender identity is non- binary what does their passport say their sex is?

I'm doubtful that you're posting in good faith, but never mind.

A male without a GRC can be transferred into the women's estate. A male with a GRC will be automatically placed into the women's estate.

Obviously I would prefer neither scenario to be the case, but given that they are happening then damage limitation is the first step until prohibition happens.

Ah sorry, I lost the quote.

I was agreeing with this PP

"I think those of us who spend time regularly on FWR boards (Or feminism:sex and gender discussions) will recognise this style of faux innocent post."

"The OP has no interest whatsoever in considering the viewpoints of others but will have a lot of fun getting other posters to explain things, will not engage in any serious debate and at some point will leave with a sigh about how Mumsnet used to be lovely but it’s all transphobia now 🙄"

*Rainbowshit
So if I wear trousers and adopt a low speaking voice do I get to achieve equal pay?

Sorry no. This is a men's rights movement. It only benefits biological males. Same old same old.

God damn, it. I thought there might be something in this transgender thing for me!*

Unfortunately not. It only works one way. All those poor girls cutting off their breasts to try and identify out of their oppression are going to find out the hard way that they can't. 😞

School, actually. Where a PE teacher would sit outside with the towels whilst we’d all go in. Now imagine that PE teacher is male with a GRC…

Gyms. Swimming pool changing rooms. I think perhaps you don't do sports?

I'm perplexed that people can falsify passports because they say they have a 'gender identity' and that no one can define what one is!