Family comes first surely ?

[Pinkchenille]

4 years ago my friend started a cleaning business. My mum was looking for a cleaner so I gave her my friends number . After 18 months or so she started to clean for my mums ndn too.

My mum has always had the opinion that if you want something you work for it so isn’t very forthcoming with helping out when I’ve struggled but my youngest is now in full time school so I wanted to work but I’ve not been able to for years due to some medical issues . I said to my mum would she consider letting me be her cleaner and as she has that kind of work ethic opinion mentioned above she was happy to do this as she would be helping me out but I wouldn’t be doing nothing in return.

she gave her cleaner (my friend) notice and I’ve now been cleaning for her a few weeks . Her ndn is one of her best friends as they’ve lived there for over 30 years and she had been talking to her and ndn has now given notice and asked me will i clean for her too (she’s aware of my medical issues and knows this will make throngs easier for me I’ve known her years and it was her suggestion)

My friend (well I’m not sure if she is anymore) has accused me of poaching her clients !!! But I’m not . They had given notice and yes I asked my mum but i didn’t approach her ndn. She’s says I shouldn’t have asked my mum but it’s my mum and surely family comes first especially given my circumstances 😞

Maybe her mother can't afford to hand out money and pay a cleaner, not everyone could afford that.

This:

But this is how I'd expect that sort of conversation to go:

DD: Mum, we're really struggling atm, can you think of any way I could earn a bit of money?
Dm: Hmm! I'd love to give you some but I'm... hang on, I'll tell you what, I can do my own cleaning. I'll stop using a cleaner and then I'll have £20 a week you can have.
Dd: I don't like thinking of you doing the cleaning, mum. That's not fair on you.
Dm: If you need the money, then I don't mind.
Dd: I'll tell you what, when I'm feeling well enough I'll come and help you. There'll be some weeks I can do it all.
Dm: Well, you don't have to, but thanks for the offer. We'll do it together-but only when you're up to it. Don't want you to make yourself worse.
Dd: Thanks.

I understand from both sides. They are her clients, but they're also close to you - so makes sense that they should want to support you.

Your friend will get over it in time. It's a horrible time to be self employed though, when every loss of a client has you recalculating what you can afford to spend this week. I'm in the same boat, so can understand why she is stressed about it, and this could come out as anger/annoyance.

Agreed. I sometimes wonder if I occupy a parallel universe to that of Mumsnet. The tone of righteous indignation on this thread is laughable.

This is the OP's mother. NDN may have muddied the water somewhat but they did approach the OP rather than vice versa, as they are fully entitled to do. 'Poaching' clients - gerroff.

OP, despite the above there's some wise advice on this thread as to the likelihood of your ex-friend reporting you. Ensure your own finances and declarations are squeaky clean and take advice (proper advice, i.e. not from Mumsnet) on it if necessary.

Why are so many of you so confused at this?

OP DID poach her friends clients. That's a fact, you can't dispute it. If you think she didn't, you are wrong.

Now, whether she's morally right/ok to poach her friends clients, as they are her mother and mothers NDN, THAT is a matter of opinion. You may think it's ok, or not ok, up to you.

For me the bigger questions are: WTF is wrong with her mother? Why does OP not care at all about her friend? And is she doing something wrong viz a viz her benefits?

Well maybe she can't afford it on a budget she sets herself. She might have spare money but wants to save that for holidays or having the house decorated. Many people budget like that.

You did poach the clients. You knew your mum wouldn’t need two cleaners so when she said yes you knew she’d let your friend go. Presumably the friend needs the money as much as you do. She isn’t doing the job for a laugh. I doubt very much she’s your friend anymore, because that’s not how friends behave, don’t you get that? Perhaps if you’d spoken to her before doing this she might have been more understanding. And it’s bloody odd your mum isn’t just helping you out anyway.

If she's saving money for new wallpaper rather than helping her adult disabled daughter, she's a massive twat.

Spoiler: she is a massive twat.

My old manager got the highest rates of PIP for care and mobility. She could just about move her finger to control her wheelchair. Everything at work was voice activated for her and she had a PA. You can get pip and work full time, she worked longer hours than me.

You poached the clients though op.

I think The problem is there several issues here and trying to deal with it as one issue makes it murky.

Did the Op poach her friend clients is the first issue. Yes she did, she knew her mum would give her friend notice. She also knew her mum would put family first. She poached her friends client, doesn’t matter that it’s Ops Mum. The mums neighbour likely approached Op due to talking to the mum. Again, she knew she was taking clients off her friend and she was gaining when she did this. So yes, poaching. Ops mum explained her daughters problem and as a result the neighbour switched. Wether you agree or disagree that the op was right to do what she did, she did move in on clients knowing it would be detrimental to her friend. She moved in on a client knowing the client would let her take the job due to family ties.

The second issue is wether Op was wrong doing it or right. And that’s going to depend on your views of right and wrong. On wether op is more desperate than the friend, wether you think op had an obligation to tell her friend upfront, wether op was right to put her own family finances in front of her friends etc.

Imo, The friend has the right to be pissed off. She lost 2 clients because someone who was her friend, decided she wanted the work instead and used ‘family comes first’ to get them. Again, wether you think Op was right to do it because she can’t afford not, surely most people can see why the friend is annoyed and feels let down by her friend

I don’t think the mum or neighbour did anything wrong. They just switched who they were using, which happens. Though I can’t believe the mother isn’t just helping her incredibly sick daughter out, since she can afford it.

Another thought: I think people are being very rudely dismissive because its a cleaner, rather than anything else.

If you worked in an office, and your boss came in one day and said "my son asked me for your job so I'm giving you your notice", not one of you would say "Oh sure, family comes first! I'll clear my desk now, best of luck". No, you'd be pissed as hell, and if the son was a friend of yours, he wouldn't stay that way.

But because its "just a cleaning job" some of you cant understand at all why the OP's friend would be bothered. Or don't want to, because you think it's ok to treat cleaners and the like as if they don't matter.

If that was my cleaner you'd poached from she'd be down £90 a fortnight.

I assume she needed that money?

Oh come on. I think the OP has behaved badly but do at least read her posts to see why she really does need to work for people who she knows

You do not need to tell PIP you are working. You inform, of a change in health issues, bank details, address but working or not working, PIP can be claimed. It is not an income related benefit. People mentioning benefit fraud are scare mongering. If your health issues have changed significantly then it may be a change of circumstances, which leads to a review.

Regarding, PIP and reporting a change of circumstances. Needing help to prepare food / eat - is not directly related to a cleaning job. It could be needing reminders to eat, supervision for safety, adapted equipment or any number of other things not related to a casual cleaning job. Stop scaremongering.

Actually you DO need to tell them when you start work, for obvious reasons

disabilityclaims.uk/do-i-have-to-tell-pip-if-i-start-work/

you gave her the clients in the first place, when she started her business to help her out. I don't think I would blame someone for wanting their daughter to clean for them over a stranger. if anything I would assume its because the mum wanted more time with the daughter than anything about you poaching. daft bint. family does come first! shame about the neighbours our but she's got experience and references to help her find more clients, you helped her out so now she's sort of helped you (by moaning to the neighbour about you I expect that's probably why she dumped her and picked up you!)

You can’t be that daft! They were her clients. You poached one client and then your mother poached her neighbour on your behalf!!

So you now have two new clients and your friend has lost two old clients because you now have them ...because you poached them.

Do you get it now?? Or not yet?

Surely the friendship thing works both ways though? If I worked for my best friends mum, and she let me go for my best friend who needed those particular working conditions more than I did because of ill health genuinely I would not be annoyed at her. In fact, I would be relieved she found some work because chances are if I was also struggling financially I would be trying to help her myself anyway with presumably great difficulty🤷🏼‍♀️ I would like to think my friends would be the same with me too if I came upon difficult circumstances and my mum was able to hire me!. That’s without taking into consideration op got her the work with them in the first place.

Back stabbing bitch is a bit dramatic!

Plus stop making stupid assumptions, no one with an opposing view has told you they are struggling for friends

Back stabbing bitch is a bit dramatic!

Plus stop making stupid assumptions, no one with an opposing view has told you they are struggling for friends

Not to the friend it wouldn't be. If your friend poached your clients and cost you money, and didn't even have the grace to be honest about it and apologise, whatg would you call her?

If you really can't see that that's no way to treat your friends, trust me, you're struggling for friends. You just don't realise it.

Absolutely no need for people to be as nasty as they are to OP, they have declared they have Autism. There seems to be a genuine confusion and lack of empathy for the friend which may be personality but may well be linked to autism or another condition.

In my personal opinion OP is being unreasonable to not acknowledge that by doing what is best for her has impacted her friend negatively, but there is absolutely no need for some of the attacks.

Sometimes you do just have to accept that by putting yourself first you will upset others- only the individual can decide whether it’s worth it. I think what’s sad about this situation is perhaps discussing it with the friend in advance would have helped the situation.