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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Family comes first surely ?

426 replies

Pinkchenille · 20/01/2023 17:05

4 years ago my friend started a cleaning business. My mum was looking for a cleaner so I gave her my friends number . After 18 months or so she started to clean for my mums ndn too.

My mum has always had the opinion that if you want something you work for it so isn’t very forthcoming with helping out when I’ve struggled but my youngest is now in full time school so I wanted to work but I’ve not been able to for years due to some medical issues . I said to my mum would she consider letting me be her cleaner and as she has that kind of work ethic opinion mentioned above she was happy to do this as she would be helping me out but I wouldn’t be doing nothing in return.

she gave her cleaner (my friend) notice and I’ve now been cleaning for her a few weeks . Her ndn is one of her best friends as they’ve lived there for over 30 years and she had been talking to her and ndn has now given notice and asked me will i clean for her too (she’s aware of my medical issues and knows this will make throngs easier for me I’ve known her years and it was her suggestion)

My friend (well I’m not sure if she is anymore) has accused me of poaching her clients !!! But I’m not . They had given notice and yes I asked my mum but i didn’t approach her ndn. She’s says I shouldn’t have asked my mum but it’s my mum and surely family comes first especially given my circumstances 😞

OP posts:
SD1978 · 20/01/2023 20:56

You did take her clients, and you cost her money. Trying to justify it by the fact she has a business and other clients, doesn't detract from the fact you've taken two off her.

Throwncrumbs · 20/01/2023 20:57

When you are to Ill to clean or decide you don’t want to do it anymore, I hope your mum and her friend dont ask your ex friend to clean again, if they do I hope she tells them to jog on!

summersun29 · 20/01/2023 20:59

Hmmm, doing it for your mum, fair enough. But to steal your mate's client from next door too... Bit far! You could have declined, and said you were only doing your mum's as a special arrangement/because she's your mum.

I think your mate might have accepted that but now you've done it twice... I'd be miffed with you too. Sorry OP!

Shoxfordian · 20/01/2023 21:00

Did you at least speak to her about it first? Yabu op; maybe not everyone says it but the majority do. With friends like you eh

xprincessxjanetx · 20/01/2023 21:01

EpicChaos · 20/01/2023 20:28

@xprincessxjanetx PIP is not paid as per the conditions someone is suffering from but rather, it is paid because of the difficulties those conditions cause.
Often claims are turned down because the claimant has failed to understand the information that the questions are asking for and not giving enough info.
If you aren't aware, there is a PIP Self Test here on the Benefits and work website. There is also a forum where you can ask questions, it costs iro £15 - £20 membership to be able to post on the forum but it is free to read, you might get some helpful info there. ( The membership fee also allows you to access written resources and stuff but i have no knowledge of what precisely that might entail, so I can't personally recommend it, though forum users often say it was all very helpful. )

Show quote history

Thank you for this, I just completed the online test and my DH scored 28! Higher rate is paid from 12. His autism is so severe he really struggles to explain to the interviewer just how badly his disabilities affect him and the last interview he has they scored him at 0!

Kissmycousinkate · 20/01/2023 21:10

You can have a full time job and claim pip. Op is saying nothings changed, she still needs to be near a toilet, she still probably takes longer when she goes, etc etc. No ones seen her application so not sure why you are saying benefit fraud, seems a bit unfair.

Ccthegreat · 20/01/2023 21:14

I’d just like to point out to everyone that op has mentioned that they are autistic and this means they have difficulty understanding other points of view or what another person may or may not be thinking. I’d also say that from some of their previous replies they take most statements literally. Autistic people are not devoid of empathy but often have difficulty with social imagination so op likely cannot imagine how this has impacted her friend without being explicitly told however, she knows how it has helped her which is why some of you think they are being self centered in their responses. If anyone is interested in understanding autism a little more so maybe they could show a little empathy themselves, I’d direct you towards The National Autistic Society website. To OP, I would also be upset if was your friend because you have taken something that was hers and that she worked for. Maybe you could reach out to her and apologise, explain that you weren’t able to consider how it might make her feel but you’ve been told that she likely feels badly and that wasn’t your intention. I hope things work out for both you and your friend x

PugInTheHouse · 20/01/2023 21:17

AngelinaFibres · 20/01/2023 20:37

It is often the way that employing family goes pear shaped very quickly. Cleaning requires a certain level of physical fitness that Op has admitted she doesn't have. She also has ADHD which doesn't lend itself to planning, order and sequence. All those things are essential in cleaning someone else's house when you are being paid cold, hard cash for it. Ops mum may put up with / accomodate her daughters needs and issues but the ndn may tire of it very quickly.

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I agree, that was my first thought but obviously I don't know anything about the quality of the OPs work so it may work out but often it doesn't and it can be very tricky.

EricNorthmanYesPlease · 20/01/2023 21:31

This is appaling. Take the fact its your Mom out of it, and you know what youve done is wrong. No amount of PP telling you so will change your mind. Im not sure why you asked the question.

Yes you need the money, but so does your friend and you've poached 2 jobs.

SD1978 · 20/01/2023 21:32

@Ccthegreat she knows she's screwed over her friend. I can not believe she doesn't.

Boomboom22 · 20/01/2023 21:35

Op, it's not a competition where she can only feel bad you stole her clients if it leaves her destitute. Her profits or disposable income are irrelevant to her feeling hurt. Yes it would make it worse but its the emotional punch of a friend betraying you.

Ccthegreat · 20/01/2023 21:37

You don’t need to believe her. Maybe have a wee look at that website I mentioned.

whynotwhatknot · 20/01/2023 21:39

maybe the fact that op is not nd is the reason why she isnt showing much empathy

it is what it is after years of their steady income shes lost it-im sure she can find oter clients but you got to do what you need to

Scienceadvisory · 20/01/2023 21:40

You say you needed a little money and you went for this option as you didn't think you could get universal credit. You now know you can get some universal credit so does this mean you are going to stop this plan and give your friend her clients back?

Boomboom22 · 20/01/2023 21:40

Also uc is not an out of work benefit, it is mostly an in work top up to low wages that you could possibly get if you are declared not fit to work and your husband is a lowish earner. Childcare costs are also relevant and even just having children with no childcare. If you rent you also get a housing element but not if you are mortgaged.
Couples on up to 60k ish can be eligible depending on circumstances so please do talk to cab.

EricNorthmanYesPlease · 20/01/2023 21:41

Pinkchenille · 20/01/2023 19:30

Well yes because I don’t know her exact finances from what i can tell she is ok but I don’t see her bank statements so i don’t know for definite. I don’t think she’s in the same situation as us and I only did this as needed a little extra each week

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Thats the whole point. you claim to just need a little extra each week, but your kids being in darkness and going hungry is a different story.

You dont know your friends situation, so you could have just taken her electricity money out of her budget if this is her sole income. Leaving her in a worse off position than you.
Yours is just an illegal side hustle for a bit extra.

Od be pissed if i was your 'friend'.

And if this isnt a troll thread im genuinely gobsmacked at your selfishness.

Boomboom22 · 20/01/2023 21:41

Or if you both work 16hrs a week and have a child you'd be eligible

AntiHop · 20/01/2023 21:43

loveyouradvice · 20/01/2023 19:26

I think you are getting an unreasonably tough time on here - I am one of those who voted that you are NOT being unreasonable.

These are people you introduced to her.... so you are not poaching people you didn't have a prior relationship with.... they have moved to you. (Poaching people is usually when you have met them through the company eg if you had been working from your friend and then left with a couple of her clients you had not known before)

In my world:

  1. Your friend would be grateful to you for providing her with two clients who she didn't have to find herself - she's had 4 years income from them
  2. After 4 years, your mum decides to ask you as her daughter to clean for her to help you out - ABSOLUTELY FAMILY COMES FIRST and very strange if your friend does not understand this
  3. her neighbour - an old family friend as you describe it - also wants to help you. ENTIRELY UNDERSTANDABLE - the daughter of an old friend and someone she cares about

In my book, the only thing you didn't do - which if she was your friend would have been appropriate - is take her out for a drink and tell her once your Mum had make the decision that this was what was happening and that you hope she understands.

Exactly this. Due to your health needs, you can't work elsewhere. Your friend will find other clients.

roarfeckingroarr · 20/01/2023 21:48

You've done nothing wrong.

It's your mum and you didn't approach the neighbour.

PuppyQuestions · 20/01/2023 21:57

I'm autistic and have ADHD also OP.
This is how the situation looks from my perspective..
You needed extra cash so you asked your mum and she accepted.. the neighbour then asked you also, which you accepted. Fine, they are the facts.
Your friend probably feels:

  • Sad about the lost income
  • Upset that you value these 2 jobs more than your friendship
  • Worried that you will take more of her clients
  • Angry that you didn't speak to her first.

On the surface, I don't think taking over your mum's house was unreasonable but the kind thing to do was to talk to your friend first and give her time to find an alternative client. This would give you an opportunity to explain why the money was so important and also to reassure her that you do NOT plan to poach more of her clients.
Once the neighbour asked you, again, I would have given your friend a heads up and explained how useful the money would be. If she expressed anger/hurt etc you could then enquire whether she might have an alternative client for you. Or you could take the job from her knowing you did your best to explain.

I think she's a friend and you owed this heads up to her. I wouldn't expect you to do the same if the cleaner was a random lady, just the notice would be fine. I hope this helps to explain how your friend might be feeling, why she feels this way and how you could fix it.

Laurthomx · 20/01/2023 21:59

MelchiorsMistress · 20/01/2023 17:57

Your friend sounds like she’d set up a proper business that presumably pays tax, so she needs her clients!

You and your mum sound incredibly selfish tbh. If you need the money that desperately and your mother is capable of helping you then why wouldn’t she just do it? Especially if you have medical issues that make it genuinely difficult for you to work. If she’s that tight that she can’t give to her own daughter without getting something in return, she could have got you to do extra deep clean/ironing type jobs that aren’t part of her cleaners regular routine. Instead she decided to take her work away to benefit her own daughter who she could have chosen to help in numerous other ways.

Then you see your friend lose two clients, probably a whole days work every week that she relies on to pay her bills that are no less important than yours, and you’re wondering why she’s unhappy about it because you can’t see a problem?

Nice people don’t behave like that.

Couldn't of put it better myself 👏🏻

AngelDelightUK · 20/01/2023 22:00

There was other stuff you could’ve done to make money, working at home for a start. I’m self employed and if a friend did that to me they would no longer be a friend either

EpicChaos · 20/01/2023 22:13

xprincessxjanetx · 20/01/2023 21:01

Thank you for this, I just completed the online test and my DH scored 28! Higher rate is paid from 12. His autism is so severe he really struggles to explain to the interviewer just how badly his disabilities affect him and the last interview he has they scored him at 0!

Show quote history

You are welcome, (btw, i hope you had the result e-mailed to you for future reference, if not, you can soon do it again ) now you just have to get those test answers onto a PIP form, so if i were you, i'd sit down with a copy of one of your old forms if you photocopied them and see how you can phrase the info in the form.
Just as an example, your DH might need you to supervise him getting washed each morning before work, as otherwise he wouldn't do a thorough enough job and would still smell sweaty and would then put the shirt he'd been wearing yesterday on again, and he would be so slow at getting himself ready that he would miss his bus every day, therefore making him unable to complete the washing/dressing activity/ies to the required standard.
Your DH needs to be able to do every activity to the required standard, as often as necessary and in a safe and timely manner.
It was a bit of a silly example but i hope it gives you a little bit of an idea of how you can inform the reader of the form of the difficulties your DH has.

Also, you might find some Autism specific tips and pointers for claiming PIP on the National Autistic Website. Your local council might have a welfare rights department that will help/advise, so it might be worth giving your council a ring. As well a that, if you are in social housing, your social housing provider might have a welfare rights advisor, likewise if he's in trade union, they will often have welfare rights help somewhere in their system.
CAB did used to have some good info on their website too, so it might be worth having a look there.

GlassBunion · 20/01/2023 22:42

Your medical history has no bearing on the fact that your friend is now short of two clients.

BrookeD · 20/01/2023 23:47

Pinkchenille · 20/01/2023 19:37

I just needed to keep the electric on and feed my children . I didn’t realise we could get UC

im not a bad person at all

I’m not a troll either . I don’t think MN is the place for me as I never meant to be unkind

And what if your actions mean your friend can't buy food? You're entitled to benefits you're not claiming and have poached two of her clients.

At least own up to it. You're not a very good friend are you?