To feel grabby and uncomfortable with this.

[abstractplantpot]

Background - i'm married with kids we own our house and a small business. Sister single by choice owns her own house works full time and has a horse.

My father died 5 yrs ago and mum is left with the house they lived in and a small savings pot. She has been diagnosed with dementia and is needing increasing care.

My sister had talked about either renting her house out or selling it to move in with mum as she would eventually like to live in that house herself. This is fine by me. At the moment we share her care. I also do all the household business like keeping bills paid ensuring she has food and everything she needs.

Sister was advised by "the girls in work" to get legal advice before she did this as she could end up loosing out. I agreed and wanted us to get the correct info on how to do this legally and above board.

I couldn't go with her as i had no child care for the time she made the appointment so she went alone.

She has come back from the solicitor and said she doesn't need to move in with mum. She wants to open a bank account in her name and my name and transfer mums savings to it. Then get the house put into our names. with a document saying mum can live there untill she's no longer able.

For me this doesn't solve the problem of mum needing care! She has gone into that appointment trying to protect her inheritance and not looked at how we can help mum.

She's telling me she needs to look after her own interests as she hasn't got anyone else to do it for her. I have a husband she has no one. She is pushing me to do this quickly as she said we have to have it done for three years otherwise if mum goes into a home she will loose the house.

She isn't listening when i mention this doesn't help with caring for mum.

i do not want to do the joint account as it will mean my earnings for this year will push up to the next tax bracket. we own a business and this will be an asset. She's happy to move it into an account
solely in her name which again i'm fine
with but what about caring for mum.

Am i being unreasonable for being uncomfortable with this. I was happy to do it when she was moving into the house (happy to get deeds in her name or joint names not the bank account) to care for mum when she wasn't at work. i'd have gone in during the day. But now she's forgotten all about mum and is concentrating on the money.

How can i make her see i'm unhappy with this with out seeming i'm selfish.
thanks.

If your mum has dementia already this will definitely be seen as deprivation of assets

Sorry if already mentioned but if your mum still lives in the house and the house is transferred to you and sister even with paper trying to prove
it’s truly yours then it’s quite often seen as a way to dodge inheritance tax. HMRC describes this as a Gift with Reservation of Benefit (GROB). They could argue that your mum has not made a valid gift.

I think the other issue here is OP that I think it's not just grabby of your sister, she's going to try and keep all the inheritance for herself and fleece both your mum and you.

Get legal advice ASAP as something isn't right here.

It's 7 years for IHT but when it comes to deliberate deprivation of assets like this then there is no formal timescale. Even with IHT this wouldn't work. It's a loophole that was closed long ago. Mum would need to pay a market rent.

If it's done when care is needed or will be needed in the foreseeable future then there is no safe timescale.

So who is going to pay for you Mothers extremely expensive care when all the money is in your sisters name?

you would be crazy to agree to this. Your sister doesn’t need the money and she’s being horribly selfish.

I wouldn’t sign anything and what ever inheritance of what is left is what you’ll get.

I am appalled at what I have just read. The open attitude of financially abusing someone with a cognitive disease. Not sure if your mum has been given a specific dementia diagnosis (alzheimer, vascular) and what stage she is. Am happy to hear you describe her life as lovely right now.

However as someone who has worked a great deal with this terrible disease let me tell you now. Her life and yours could get terrible very, very quickly. There is no real time span. Even if it was this "three years" she is talking about your mother disease could (and will unless something else takes her ill) seriously advance and the care you both are able to provide is insufficient.

Caring for someone with dementia is a huge undertaking and the fact that your sister is only concerned with money has me thinking she is not up to the task and also shouldn't be allowed to do it. She wants to financially abuse a vulnerable woman who is her own mother.

The bit about transferring the house will protect your DS but not your DM. I used to work for a solicitior who specialised in Probate and elderly client matters.

He would have strongly advised against putting the property into the names of yourself and your sister. Two reasons:

If something happened to DM within seven years then the seven 7 rule comes in and extra tax will be payable on what's seen as a gift.

If DM needs care and you and your sister don't have funds readily available to pay, the government aren't going to either as they'll see it that she's intentionally try to get out of paying care home fees, then DM will be stuck for care.

Well your sister must have a piss poor solicitor.

She hasn't advised her well at all - her suggested 'routes' will fall at the first hurdle. As many posters have already pointed out, it's 7 years not 3. She hasn't mentioned the tax that you would both be liable for on inheriting a house. There is inheritance tax but also capital gains to consider. Your sister would have to 'rent' to your mum at market rate and this would be additional income - taxable - that would also serve to potentially bump up tax brackets and on it goes.... Even putting aside the greed/coldness - it's a nonsense plan. Both HMRC and the council are vigilant to people trying to find loopholes when an elderly parent starts getting ill - they are all over it and anyone who advises anything else is lying or stupid.

I would tell your sister that her appointment wasn't worth the money she paid for it, and that even if you didn't mind the fact that it left your mum high and dry, it won't work.

Nothing like money to split a family.

The way I think it should work would be your mums house is sold.
The money goes towards a nice private care home as its her money and private ones are better.The fees anything from a thousand a week to one a half thousand depending on where you live.

When your mum passes you and your sister get an equal share of what's left. If that's what it says in the will.

Money will take 6 or months before you get it.

If your ds motive is purely to ensure the house isn't sold to someone else eventually then surely if the time comes when it needs to be sold to pay for care then your sister could sell her own property at that time and buy it or is it worth more than she could ever afford?
Please do take legal advice before doing anything as you could find yourselves in trouble.
I know a couple who were POA for an elderly aunt, as they were also the main beneficiaries of her will they thought it would be okay to start dipping into her savings whilst she was still alive. Another family member discovered this and they ended up being jailed for around 6 months. As the aunt was just frail but still mentally alert she was able to write a new will cutting them out completely.

@abstractplantpot that's theft what she she wants to do.

and I don't believe poa gives you the right to determine how to split her assets when she dies, either.

you'll know that poa means you have to act solely in your MUMS interests and no one else's.

I have nothing else to add except legal advice immediately and if your sister moves any more off her own back you are legally bound to report it

Good luck

How is your sister planning on caring for and living with your dm full time, working full time AND looking after a horse?
Obviously, she is hoping that your mum will not have to go into a nursing home and so avoiding any care home fees and deprivation of assets etc.
Caring for a loved one with advanced dementia (my own poor dm has Alzheimer’s), is hell on earth and very few people are able to do this without extra daily care or placing that LO in a nursing home.
I am afraid your dsis is delusional, inexperienced and money grabbing.

Do you have full Lasting POA? If not, you need to check your legal position carefully because once your mother lost capacity the legalities changed.

Either way, any decisions you make under the POA have to be in your mother's best interests, not your sister's. If you don't comply with that duty, you could be in trouble yourself.

You need full legal advice before you commit to anything at all.

There are many things wrong with this.

You need to prioritise organising care for your mum. You then need to get some legal advice. You could also discuss with her bank and mortgage company that there might be a fraudulent attempt to deprive her of assets. They may be able to flag something on the accounts.

@abstractplantpot - This thought occurred to me too!

Um, don't do this. (Obviously.)

I am a solicitor OP. There is no way on earth a solicitor advised your sister to do any of that. Absolutely not. Call a solicitor today. Do not do anything using the LPA that is not in your MUM’s best interests. You cant use it for making large gifts etc.

You have PoA for your mum and you need to act in her best interests not your sister's. Your sister has shown that she is happy to financially abuse her own mother and she cannot be trusted. I would be keeping a very close eye on her. It sounds as if you have been doing what you should be and using your mum's assets to give her a nice life.

Surely she isn't trying to rob your mum, isn't she trying to sort out some sort of wealth/tax/estate management plan? It sounds like a separate issue to sorting out care for your mum.

You can’t put property into trust and still benefit from it. Well, you can, but it would not be effective for inheritance tax.
Also, a transfer into trust could land you with an immediate tax charge.
And you might potentially still end up paying IHT.

Neither your sister nor anyone else - can transfer your mum’s money, house or any other assets, unless they have Power of Attorney. And even if they do, any action must be strictly in your mother’s best interests. It’s not a licence to steal!

Re the house, you can register the property for free with the Land Registry, who will inform you of any activity regarding a particular property. So e.g. if your sister tried to transfer it behind your back, any solicitor - even a dodgy one - would need to access the Land Reg property details and you’d be informed straight away.

You don’t need to own the property to register - dh has registered both of dds’ houses.

If your mum needs to go into a care home then she will be self funded , that means selling the house if needed to cover the fees . If the house is sold before then then the council social services will want the money from the sale regardless . Think they leave you 100k these days .

Also there's 2 PoA , medical and financial

The solicitor will have made it all seem reasonable, it's not necessarily that she's being purposefully / maliciously grabby.

But I'd be uncomfortable with this too. Have another sit down talk & explain how it sounds. It might sound like that to her too outside of the solicitors office.

It might not, obvs, she might be a heartless money grabber.

You know her better.

Many apologies I was given this information a few years, happy to know the correct information just incase I need it.

Threads like these are a wealth of knowledge and I am so happy they exist.