To ask if parenting really was easier in the past?

[germanbight]

My beloved grandma, who lived on a small farm and really ran it alone, always used to tut at toddlers/small children who were being naughty out and about and always told me that when she had her children it was all much simpler— especially in the baby phase.

Apparently routine kept all 4 children perfect from baby-hood. Baby fed every three hours until it slept through, all children off for an afternoon nap after dinner and bedtime a prompt 7:30 until they were 10. She always used to say that now parents adapt to fit the baby in their lives, but when she was having children they had to adapt to her life.

I just don’t see how it could’ve run on clockwork like that. Was it really that much easier? Just a case of endless CIO?

You could just take them for a walk.

I agree @Lilyhatesjaz Dd loves joining me on my errands. She loves being given little jobs to ‘help’ (like asking her to let me know when she sees the dog food and then I’ll deliberately walk past it looking the other way!), I feel a constant timetable of organised ‘activities’ just raises their expectations as to what constitutes fun and makes them less patient and well behaved when it comes to ‘boring’ days or helping with regular household tasks. DD also loves helping me unpack food shopping, sorting through laundry (‘put all the pants in a pile here’) and dusting (she just follows me around with a duster)

I’m not surprised parental satisfaction is so low and stress levels are so high if I’m honest, it seems all people do with their kids are high-energy, high-spend or tech based things.

I could but without something like an essential errand or the park at the other end to motivate myself it's just tedious as fuck.

The thing is, we can talk about trends at a societal level, or we can talk about anecdotes from your own experience, both are valid but they won't necessarily match up.

It is true to say that people tend to live further away from their own families now, and there are fewer multigenerational households compared to say the 1950s. If granny can hold the baby while mum cleans the house and dad is out at work that's a very different experience to most modern day parenting!

Lots of people saying their mums worked full time when they were little, just interested in who looked after them (pre school age). I went to a childminder, my own children went to a day nursery.Did private nurseries exist in the same way as they do now? For very young babies?

I’d say I maybe hit the “sweet spot” in terms of timing. I had mine late 80’s/early 90s. Still in the times when a baby was meant to fit into your life and not vice versa, but late enough for modern conveniences like washing machines!

I had two 18 months apart and I kept the house clean, dinner on the table etc, with time to spare. They both went on solids from 12 weeks and slept through from around the same age. And I certainly never got up at 5am with them as toddlers, they’d have been told in no uncertain terms to go back to bed!

We did ok financially with just my partner working. But I also got into a career quite easily towards the late 90s. Whereas now women are cautioned on taking more than a year out. I guess the job market is also tougher now. We got a PC around the mid/late 90s but the internet wasn’t like it is now, so less of a concern. Overall I’m glad I had them when I did.

But children at home would still get out. Being at home doesn’t mean inside 4 walls all day.

No mums had access to a car where I grew up. Tiny fridges so shopping frequently. Lots more in person bill paying. Mum went to post office to get family allowance weekly. Where mum went pre schooler went.

We seem to have shifted to in house. Get in car. Go to paid activity. Parents feel pressured to do an activity daily.

Things like walk to pond and feed ducks were the activity not a paid one.

Not saying don’t do activities and farms, stately homes but there’s a lot of enjoyment and learning for small children in everyday life.

I’m a girlguiding volunteer now. I did brownies as a child but it was my only evening activity. Now our girls do multiple a week sometimes more than one a night.

We are all guilty of it. There’s a pressure to do exciting activities, go on lots of trips. One of best nights we’ve had recently at Guides was just colouring and chatting. I’m trying to remember that as we plan sessions.

Late 70s, early 80s there was no private nursery or after school where we lived.
Brother went to a childminder when mum worked for a few months. She’d enquired at council run nursery and was told no it was only for single mums, neglected children etc.
School nursery half days from age 3. This was brand new I was first intake.
After school a neighbour walked us home. I disliked her daughter so persuaded mum to let me walk alone from age 7 ish.

I was born in the 60's. You'd see children constantly getting smacked legs. You'd see other children being hit, in school, at clubs etc so it would be enough of a threat to make you behave. Children's bruises were ignored as was their mother's black eyes. DV and child abuse was practically legal. To keep the workforce moving along, things were deemed "to not do any harm", so damaging practices carried on.

"Rome for example had mourning that started at one month for a very young child and then it increased based on age. Who would spend a month in mourning for someone inconsequential?"

When a Roman woman gave birth the baby would be taken to the father, or male head of the house, who would decide if it lived. Those mourned were the children wanted by the men.

I agree that the Mother's pain wouldn't have necessarily been any less. There was just an acceptance of death and so many died you were expected to carry on. The letters and writings found from Catherine of Aragon showed that Henry V111 felt the loss of his children on a personal level.

People believe what they are taught and in generations or cultures were they are told not to question their elders etc what we now know as neglect carries on. It was all about freeing the women up to service the men, so they could go to work.

We're not talking about housework aand convenience, we're talkong about parenting!Of course getting the washing done etc was harder, but on the other hand its easier to get it done if your children are out on the street for hours and you ignore them if they cry at night so you got a full nights sleep.

Parenting is obviously easier if you spend much of your time ignoring your children and you don't have any notion that you have to care about their emotional wellbeing or try and meet their needs.

Did private nurseries exist in the same way as they do now? For very young babies?

Not when I had mine in the mid 70s. The expectation was that you stopped work when your baby was born and went back when they started school. There was no maternity leave or pay either.

Was childcare relatively cheaper a generation ago? I'm guessing without the ratios and Ofsted requirements of today you could do it on the cheap. Obviously not always good for the babies and children.

Some workplaces had nurseries. Relatives in cotton mills and their dc in 50s went to nursery.

Problem is, we’re talking about ‘the past’ and some of us mean Victorian times, some mean 1980s!

As always, there’s going to be huge differences amongst different cultures and social classes and even within those cultures and classes huge variations. There are general trends, but we’d need to identify which era we are specifically referring to.

Certainly it’s only very recently smacking has been socially frowned upon. And abuse of children in plain sight was a thing. ‘Streetwise’ children was a synonym for a troublemaker and not a vulnerable child.

Helen Forrester’s books are a good read for an insight to 1930s attitudes. And it was less than a hundred years ago children were evacuated to an unknown family which is unthinkable now. So attitudes have changed dramatically in that time, but I’m never sure why more time, more attention, more love, is seen as a bad thing.

@Clarabellawilliamson, I grew up in a deprived bit of Liverpool. My Mum worked for Littlewoods pools, a lot of other Mum's worked in the Meccano, Jacobs biscuit factory and other factories. Family childcare was usual, as was the older teenage girl of a local family, or a Mum with just one/two. It was a good earning opportunity for older women. Sally Webster was a childminder on Coronation Street, she gave up when the regulations came in. Over summer we'd (a big group of children) be looked after my friend's sisters who were 12 and 14. We lived on jam sandwiches. There were similar set ups all over the neighbourhood.

I’m never sure why more time, more attention, more love, is seen as a bad thing.

Because unlimited love/attention equals a spoilt child. It also limits their independence and confidence, if mum/dad is always there to hover and pick up the pieces. It’s about balance. Plus the main job of parents is to prepare their child for adulthood - there certainly won’t be a source of unlimited love and attention then!

I think far more informal childcare. Neighbour 2 doors down walked us home from school for a while (mum paid her cash) now she’d need to be ofsted registered I think.
Sunday school - we were dropped off and picked up parents didn’t stay. Would be no dbs check, ratios etc.
Teens babysitting or young girls taking babies out in prams. When I was 1 a girl age 10 ish from down street came to ‘play’ with me. Obviously my mum was there but could get on with jobs. Christine had just seen me and knocked on door and asked.

My Nan makes child rearing in the 1950s sound idyllic- she goes all misty eyed when she remembers how much of a 'good baby' my uncle was because she could just leave him in his pram under the apple tree all day and he never cried....

It could still be half your wage. Women in clothing factories in the 80's could be on about £1.50 an hour, childcare if using a local woman could be between £3-£5 a day. The better quality the more expensive unless you touched lucky. There were kind retired women who just wanted to supplement their pension.

I honestly don’t think the ills of society are being caused by children being taken to petting zoos, @Cuppasoupmonster

I’m never sure why more time, more attention, more love, is seen as a bad thing

How presumptuous to think the children of the current generation of parents are more loved. As for more time and attention, the results of that seem to be coming through now In university entrants who can’t budget, do their own washing or cooking and frequently can’t even get themselves to lectures. Goodness only knows what’s going to happen when they start work.

I don’t think that’s necessarily the case at all @Blossomtoes but people seem to be saying that children nowadays have more attention given to them and some see that as a bad thing; I don’t.

I agree @Getinajollymood , it's not a bad thing at all. X

I don’t think that’s necessarily the case at all

If you’re referring to my comment on “more love” why did you say it? As I say, it’s going to be another 10 to 15 years before we’re able to judge the success of today’s parenting methods.

Families vary. I had two children in the early70s, I had to work so although I read mother didn't need to work then I certainly did. Activities were less? Really I remember cubs, football, guitar, tennis, judo, cricket, art club, skating, probably some I've forgotten.

The luxury of getting into a car to get them there, I'd get home from work grab them and dash off to whatever/wherever it was.

All my friends did similar although if they had girls the list would include brownies and usually dancing. So yes in my experience there was an expectation to be "doing" stuff with kids long before the 90s. Maybe it varied round the country.

Making sure children have healthy food, babies have enough nappies washed and clean when they need changing is parenting unless you want them running round with a wet bum all day and an empty belly. Maybe housework is so easy today that people don't see that.